Connecting phrases

[jmignot]

Hi みなさん、
I have a problem with the syntax of connecting phrases in Japanese.

In the case of
せがたかい + めがねがかけている + 人
[tall + wearing glasses + person]

I have learnt that one can write
せがたかくてめがねがかけている人

but how about the reversed order
めがねがかけている + せがたかい + 人 ?
Should I use
めがねがかけていてせがたかい人
or just
めがねがかけてせがたかい人 ?
…or none of these?

Any hint?

Thanks a lot

Jean-Michel

[Bueller_007]

Hi みなさん、
I have a problem with the syntax of connecting phrases in Japanese.

In the case of
せがたかい + めがねがかけている + 人
[tall + wearing glasses + person]

I have learnt that one can write
せがたかくてめがねがかけている人

but how about the reversed order
めがねがかけている + せがたかい + 人 ?
Should I use
めがねがかけていてせがたかい人
or just
めがねがかけてせがたかい人 ?
…or none of these?

Any hint?

Thanks a lot

Jean-Michel

A couple of things.
1) You should try to use kanji when you post... Even if you don't know them, your IME will select the correct one 9 times out of 10.
2) かける is a transitive verb, so it requires a を particle, not a が particle after メガネ.
メガネをかけている人 = The person wearing glasses.

So:

I have learned that one can write
背が高くてメガネをかけている人

but how about the reversed order
Should I use
メガネをかけていて背が高い人
or just
メガネをかけて背が高い人 ?
…or none of these?

I'm actually not sure about this, because I've never had to use this construction, but it seems to me that メガネをかけていて背が高い人 would be the "correct" version. You could probably shorten it to メガネをかけて背が高い人 without any problems though.

The version メガネをかけている、背が高い人 with a comma or a noticeable pause between いる and 背 might also work. You'd need a pause, otherwise, it would mean "the guy whose tall back is wearing glasses."

[jmignot]

Bueller さん,
Thanks for your explanations and for correcting my mistake. I should have known かける is transitive…

On the other hand, I do not fully agree with your recommendation to use kanji here. This was a grammar point, furthermore at a beginner's level, so, from my own experience as a beginner myself, it confuses me a bit when I need to struggle with unknown kanji in someone else's post.
If you are fluent, it may seem awkward to you to read simple words written in kana, but the idea was to make it easy for everybody to read my question, and, more interesting, other people's answers.
I guess someone posting on a topic at a higher level might choose to use kanji.
Just IMHO !

[spinozza]

I agree with Bueller, though I understand where you are coming from.

I think even beginners should be always looking at kanji. Use this if you don't already have it

http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/

Even a complete n00b can read anything...

頑張れ!

[Bueller_007]

I agree with Bueller, though I understand where you are coming from.

I think even beginners should be always looking at kanji. Use this if you don't already have it

http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/

Even a complete n00b can read anything...

頑張れ!

Yeah, that was my point exactly. The best way for me to learn kanji was simply typing it into keitai emails.

[rdesiree]

Yup, I'm just beginning, too, but kanji is easier.

There are just too many words that are the same in hiragana. Given that I understand only part of the phrase, if I have to juggle between 2 possible meanings on some words, translating gets really difficult. A kanji is easy to look up, much less hassle.
(Not to mention that you don't confound 医者　with いしょ　 ）

[jmignot]

I feel a bit frustrated that the discussion about kanji seems to be attracting more interest than my original post

Since Bueller wrote in his answer that he was "not absolutely sure", I would have been interested to know someone else's opinion on this grammar point.

Concerning kanji, although a majority of the contributors here seem to disagree with me, I still believe that there is nothing wrong with using kana for simple grammar examples. Btw, A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar (a rather popular reference for beginners) uses Kanji + Romaji… and the second volume gives the furigana.

Anyway, next time, I will try to post both kanji and kana so that nobody can complain!

[jmignot]

I agree with Bueller, though I understand where you are coming from.

I think even beginners should be always looking at kanji. Use this if you don't already have it

http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan/

Even a complete n00b can read anything...

頑張れ!

Great add-on. I had installed it previously but forgot how to use it. Thanks for reminding me. It is much better than using a conversion site like http://www.rikai.com/perl/Home.pl
The only drawback is that I normally use Safari rather than Firefox, so I will need to switch.

[Jason]

Since Bueller wrote in his answer that he was "not absolutely sure", I would have been interested to know someone else's opinion on this grammar point.

I agree with Buellerさん.

[Bueller_007]

Since Bueller wrote in his answer that he was "not absolutely sure", I would have been interested to know someone else's opinion on this grammar point.

I agree with Buellerさん.

Damn, I'm good!

If the two of us agree on something, there's no way it could be wrong.

[jmignot]

Thank you gammar gurus

Great response on JPod101, as usual !