Couple of Questions

[spinozza]

A couple of quick questions.

I was reading an online Japanese website which stated the following, and I need a little clarification on why they said this.

日本語を話すことができます。
日本語を話すのができます。<-- Why is this incorrect?
日本語を話すことが好きです。
日本語を話すのが好きです。

But the others are correct?


A second question is:

I don't really understand the difference between 聞こえる/聞ける and 見える/見られる.

The former is "to be" heard/seen, while the latter is the potential form, which in my mind, means the same thing.

As a side note, is there a rule for creating the verbs 聞こえる and 見える. Or are they verbs in their own right? Like can I create a verb, "to be read" by using 読む? Sorry if the question is a little bit difficult to understand.

どうもありがとう。

[Jason]

日本語を話すのができます。<-- Why is this incorrect?

The problem here is the choice of using the nominalizer
の instead of こと. の should only be used with expressing personal experiences, opinion, etc. You can't use it to express a plain statement of fact. こと is a very neutral nominalizer and can be used ether with simple statements of fact or with expressions of personal sentiment (though it sounds a bit impersonal this way). Since your ability to do something is a fact about yourself and not a personal opinion(etc), you can't use の here. For example, both of the below are correct:

日本語を話すことは難しい。
日本語を話すのは難しい。

The difference is the 2nd one emphasizes that this is your personal opinion. However, only the first of these next 2 examples is correct:

泳ぐことができません。
泳ぐのができません。

But the others are correct?

Yes.

I don't really understand the difference between 聞こえる/聞ける and 見える/見られる.

The former is "to be" heard/seen, while the latter is the potential form, which in my mind, means the same thing.

I'm not completely clear on this myself, but this is how I see it. 聞こえる and 見える deal with the actual act of perceiving. 聞ける and 見られる deal with the *ability* to perceive. I found this thread:

http://tinyurl.com/yaep9l

As a side note, is there a rule for creating the verbs 聞こえる and 見える. Or are they verbs in their own right? Like can I create a verb, "to be read" by using 読む? Sorry if the question is a little bit difficult to understand.

They are related but separate verbs. You can't form a 聞こえる type verb out of any verb at whim.

However, "to be read" would simply be the passive: 読まれる

[spinozza]

Thanks for the explanation, that helps a lot..

It was kind of funny how I even realized that there was a difference with 見える.

I have a Japanese friend who I meet with once a week and we go out to eat/go for coffee/movie, etc...and she helps me with Japanese by practicing conversations.

We were driving to a Japanese restaurant and it was raining really bad and you couldn't really see the road. I commented on this fact using 見る and she corrected me using 見える.

Wish I had more Japanese friends here in the US to speak with..

[Bueller_007]

As I understand it:

聞こえる means "can hear".
聞ける means "can listen".

見える means "can see".
見られる means "can watch".

The difference is that the former do not imply intent, whereas the latter do.

If you want to say "If you buy a radio cassette-player, you can listen to the news," you use 聞ける not 聞こえる. Using 聞こえる in this case would imply that after you buy a radio cassette-player, you would suddenly (and uncontrollably) hear the news, perhaps even without having turned the radio on.

[untmdsprt]

日本語を話すのができます。<-- Why is this incorrect?

The problem here is the choice of using the nominalizer
の instead of こと. の should only be used with expressing personal experiences, opinion, etc. You can't use it to express a plain statement of fact. こと is a very neutral nominalizer and can be used ether with simple statements of fact or with expressions of personal sentiment (though it sounds a bit impersonal this way). Since your ability to do something is a fact about yourself and not a personal opinion(etc), you can't use の here. For example, both of the below are correct:

日本語を話すことは難しい。
日本語を話すのは難しい。

The difference is the 2nd one emphasizes that this is your personal opinion. However, only the first of these next 2 examples is correct:

泳ぐことができません。
泳ぐのができません。

This has been the most difficult topic for me. I guess I really don't understand what would be an English equivalent. Both of your examples are clear, but the ones used in my book aren't.

Ex:
１。仕事が終わるのは７時ごろです。
２。私は朝ジョギングをするのが好きです。
３。私はミルズさんが来るのをまっています。

Seems to me that #1 and #3 could take こと instead of の。#2 can't because it seems like a personal opinion. Is there a lesson on Japanesepod that covers this?

Thanks!!

[Jason]

I think the simplest explanation would be that different teachers and books stress and not stress certain things. The fact is that in actual usage の gets used a lot where technically こと should probably be used. So much so that #1 and 3 would sound unnatural to me if こと had been used instead. There are some places where の just really sounds wrong and is grammatically wrong, like in expressing ability. But in common usage, こと sounds kind of stiff and formal in a lot of places.

There really isn't an English equivalent. We don't nominalize things differently based on opinion vs fact.

[untmdsprt]

Ok, now I'm still confused on this whole の and こと bit.

How about this?:

飛行機が着きます。The plane arrives.

飛行機が着くのは４時です。The plane is arriving at 4 o'clock.

[Jason]

飛行機が着くのは４時です。The plane is arriving at 4 o'clock.

No, you can't say it like this. You've written "the plane arriving is 4 o'clock." It doesn't make sense in English or Japanese. You would say:

飛行機は４時に着きます。