stupid grammar questions

[Jason]

I don't think I've ever heard へ used to indicate the recipient of something. Ex) 彼へ手紙を出した. I have heard things like 彼への手紙.

[rdesiree]

me again! Can somebody please help me again? This is jpod's own:
雨がふったら、中止します。
雨天中止 : cancelled because of rain, so I translate: Because rain precipitated, we/I/you cancelled (whatever event).
I don't understand ふったら. What's THAT I would put ふった ので or ふったから　and that's how I translate, but it's probably all wrong. Help, pleeaase!

[Belton]

雨がふったら、中止します。

雨がふったら　means IF it rains. It is a conditional form.
It's fairly easy to make if you can make ta form. You just add ra.

It can also mean when. So "When it rains it will be cancelled" makes sense too.

Looking it up in a book it seems
As soon as it rains, it will be cancelled works as well.


introduced in Beginner lesson 97 apparently.

[rdesiree]

thanks, belton.
Once one knows these constructions, they're indeed not so difficult... I downloaded a list of them (which I thought of as VERY long ) but somehow the construction I'm looking for is always missing... *sigh*
Thanks

[rdesiree]

... me agaaaiiin... with 2 questions:
1)
いつまで寝てるのよ。I don’t understand the verb form. Is that v-te + るの？ What does it mean? Or is it 寝てる? (what do I do with のよ then?) Yep, it's not in my long list of constructions...
2)
May I use indifferently “x に会う”and “x と会う” to say “to meet x”?

THANK YOU

BTW, some stuff that is classified in the grammar bank as JLPT3 level is included in the JLPT4 list from spurrymoses, and also in the grammar tests for level 4 here. -> seems that the classification of some grammar points is not OK (eg vて　ある、たら).

[Jason]

1) The word is 寝てる and it's just short for 寝ている. The い in the 〜ている form gets dropped a lot in informal speech.

のよ is a combination of the sentence ending particles の and よ. の here is a very informal question marker. よ is adding empahsis, and in this case irritation that they're sleeping so late.

2) No. The に version implies that one person is stationary and the other person goes there to meet them. The person being met probably isn't going anywhere after you meet. と implies The people meeting are coming from somewhere else to meet at some central place. Then they'll go back to their respective places after the meeting's over. Compare these:

明日病院で母に会います。 [Implying your Mom is probably IN the hospital for some sickness]
明日病院で母と会います。 [Implying you'll meet your Mom at the hopsital, but she's probably not in the hospital.]

[rdesiree]

Thanks, Jason

[rdesiree]

the more I learn, the more stupid questions I find...

I'm sure that these issues must be already described somewhere here, but I can't find them (which is strange, given that the grammar bank has gotten quiet big). Please excuse me for any redundancy... and THANKS for help!

1) 音楽を聞きながら、御飯　作ります。I listen to music...I make dinner. What's ながら? I can't find it in the grammar bank, so probably I'm not looking for the right term.

2) 父に電話をしました。でも友達にはしませんでした。The translation given is: "My father phoned but my friend didn't." But then, why is it 父に? I would have translated: I called my father, but I did not call my friend. Why is "my father phoned" not 私の　父が　電話をしました。???

3) verb -に　行きませんか: does that mean "let's go to do sth? I found a bunch of phrases with constructions like that, and it's the only translation that makes sense for all of them...

4) Ok, I got adj-く　＋ありません　＝negative. But:
きのうはどうして早くかえりましたか　I would translate as: Yesterday, why did you come back early? and
今日は　はやく　ねます which I think of as: Today, I'm going to bed early.　
Also: 部屋をもっと明るくして　ください。Please make the room brighter. (?)
Is the -くused here the adverb form, as Belton described before?

5) すみません、すこし、しずかにして　ください。Sorry, please make (it??) a bit quiet. (Sounds somehow strange ) What do I do with しずかに? Is that another way of making adverbs? (hm, now that I think of it - that's a na-adjective... Is that it?? adj-に to make adverbs of na-adjectives?

Thanks for help

[Airth]

You're doing great, rdesiree! You got everything right as far as I can see.

It seems strange that ながら is not in the grammar bank as it was covered in lesson 133. It basically expresses the idea of 'while'. I recommend using Space ALC to get examples - http://tinyurl.com/yj2nul

I agree with you about the use of に電話をする
For example, Space ALC translates 彼女に電話したか as "Did you call her?" Here are other examples - http://tinyurl.com/ylf4my

You answered your own questions with regards the use of adverbs. You can see how 静かにして is usually translated here - http://tinyurl.com/ybrrbj

[Belton]

My 2 euro

1. ながら is a conjunction meaning "while...ing" two things happening at the same time.
so
"while listening to music I make dinner."
except in English it's normaly the other way around.
I make dinner while listening to music.
to use nagara you take the masu stem and add nagara
見ます　- -> 見ながら

2. I agree with you. 　
に suggests the call is to my father , to my friend. with the subject I understood.
I don't think you need 私の when talking about family members as honorifics usually make it clear whether it is your family or someone else's.
父　my father when talking to others
お父さん　your father or talking about my father to family members or addressing my father.


3. ...ませんか construction is usually a polite invitation to do something.
映画を見ませんか。won't you see a film.?
or in more normal English but very loose translation "would you like to see a film".


...に...に行く　construction is to go somewhere in order to do something.
(other verbs of motion like 来る and 帰る can also be used)
映画館に映画を見に行きました。I went to the cinema to see a film.

combine them to get "won't you go somewhere to do something "
映画館に映画を見に行きませんか。　

4. That's what I'd say. adverbial form of i adjective. change i to ku

5. that's adverbial use of na adjective. change na to ni

[rdesiree]

thanks, guys!

[Jason]

:shock: the more I learn, the more stupid questions I find...

That's how learning works.

1) Beltonさん explained this one already.

2) I agree that this is an error in their translation. It's an easy one to make if you're not paying attention to your particles.

私の is implied by default with the humble family words like 父. To use humble words for another's family would be extremely rude.

3) Beltonさん again.

4) Yes.

5) Yes. The adverbial form of na-adjs is [dict form na-adj]+に.

The construction: [adverb form of adjective] + する means to "make something [adjective]/cause something to be [adjective]." Some examples:

きれいにする = to make clean. Or simply "to clean."
もっと安くする = to make cheaper
静かにする = to make quiet, or to be quiet

When used as a request, 静かにして(ください) is a more polite way to ask someone to shut up. An お is often added to the beginning to make it even more polite. It's also often shortened to just 静かに or お静かに.

[rdesiree]

Hi everyone,
somewhere someone explained this already... ごめんなさい。
どこでしりあったんですか　ー＞ I remember that "ん　です" is a contraction, but of what?? I promise I'll write it down this time and memorize it
It's translated as "where did you meet?", could I say also
どこで　しりあいました　?

2) そちらへむかって　います。(I'm heading there). In the informal version, it's changed to 向かって　るとこ．
In another bit, v.te います　is changed to v.te るよ。
Is that again the construction verb-ている, contracted to verb-てる? If so, I'm fine with よ at the end of the phrase, but what's とこ "ever, endless" doesn't make much sense...

only 5 weeks left...

thanks for help

[Belton]

1.
んです is a contraction of のです
you could say どこで知り合いましたか。and have a similar meaning.
のですか　is asking for an explanation or can imply doubt
のです　offers an explanation. or is a declarative statement.

2.
て’る　is a contraction in speech of ている
maybe it isn't とこ　but どこ　
a tag question in casual speech inverting the word order.
you're heading where?
otherwise I've no idea what とこ could be.

四級をがんばってね！

[Bueller_007]

とこ is short for ところ, "place".