gozaimasu

[shuji50]

What's the difference between gozaimasu and gozaimashita?

[Bueller_007]

What's the difference between gozaimasu and gozaimashita?

Present tense and past tense, respectively.

[seanolan]

One is present tense, the other is past. Do you mean what is the difference between "arigatou gozaimasu" and "arigatou gozaimashita"? Or what circumstances lead to this question? "gozaimasu" is keigo for "to exist, to be" (and by colloquial use, many other verbs) so it is very formal "is" and "was" respectively. (Think "thou art" and "thou wast" for a comparable level of formality in English, although we never use them, and the Japanese use "gozaimasu" quite often)

Sean

[Jason]

While I understand your reasons, I don't think "thou art" and thou wast" are very good comparisions. They're archaic, while gozaru is very much not. Also, I don't know that "thou art", etc, are necessarily more polite as opposed to just being really old.

[seanolan]

While I understand your reasons, I don't think "thou art" and thou wast" are very good comparisions. They're archaic, while gozaru is very much not. Also, I don't know that "thou art", etc, are necessarily more polite as opposed to just being really old.

It is archaic, but from about the 1700's to say the late 1800's, both are and art were in usage (actually far before that also, but I can only vouch for the stuff from my course in etymology) and the "thou" form was extremely formal, while the "you" form was very casual. Very similar to the current German du/Sie forms, the Spanish tu/usted, and French tu/vous forms. However, the 2nd person formal fell out of usage in the late 1800's (earlier in most of America) and now, yup, it's archaic, but it's the closest thing we can refer to in our own language to a gramatically polite conjugation. But I did also mention that "gozaru" is in common usage in Japanese, so I would hope nobody is confused into thinking that gozaru is archaic.

Sean

[Jason]

and the "thou" form was extremely formal, while the "you" form was very casual.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that.

[Bueller_007]

It is archaic, but from about the 1700's to say the late 1800's, both are and art were in usage (actually far before that also, but I can only vouch for the stuff from my course in etymology) and the "thou" form was extremely formal, while the "you" form was very casual.

This thread is starting to get off topic, but I had never heard this before, so I checked into it, and it seems that you've got it backwards.

From Wikipedia:

--

"Thou" is an archaic second-person singular informal nominative pronoun, the objective form of which is "thee". The plural forms are "ye" and "you", respectively.

"From French [which still has a "tu"-"vous" distinction], English acquired the habit of addressing kings and other aristocrats in the plural. Eventually, this was generalized, to address any social superior or stranger with a plural pronoun, which was felt to be more polite."

--

So it would appear that "thou"/"thee" was used to address laypeople whom the speaker was familiar with, whereas "ye"/"you" was used to address strangers and people of higher status.

Interesting, nonetheless.

[seanolan]

When I have a chance, I'll have to check the sources of that Wikipedia article, since it exactly contradicts what I learned in my sophomore year of college. If memory serves me though, even Shakespeare's plays' usage of thou vs. you contradicts that article, even though I would not call Shakespeare a perfect grammarian by any means.

Sean

[Bueller_007]

When I have a chance, I'll have to check the sources of that Wikipedia article, since it exactly contradicts what I learned in my sophomore year of college. If memory serves me though, even Shakespeare's plays' usage of thou vs. you contradicts that article, even though I would not call Shakespeare a perfect grammarian by any means.

Sean

My Oxford dictionary says the same thing about thee/thou/ye/you as the Wikipedia article.

If you want, I'll help you lobby to get your ex-professor fired.

Here's what the Wiki article has to say about Shakespeare and "thou":

--

William Shakespeare occasionally seems to use thou in the intimate, French style sense, but he is by no means consistent in using the word that way, and friends and lovers call each other ye or you as often as they call each other thou. In Henry IV, Shakespeare has Falstaff mix up the two forms speaking to Prince Henry, the heir apparent and Falstaff's commanding officer, in the same lines of dialogue. It might be said here that the Prince combined the roles of prince and drinking companion:

PRINCE: Thou art so fat-witted with drinking of old sack, and unbuttoning thee after supper, and sleeping upon benches after noon, that thou hast forgotten to demand that truly which thou wouldest truly know. What a devil hast thou to do with the time of the day? …
FALSTAFF: Indeed, you come near me now, Hal … And, I prithee, sweet wag, when thou art a king, as God save thy Grace – Majesty, I should say; for grace thou wilt have none –

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou

[Abrassart]

What's the difference between gozaimasu and gozaimashita?

Present tense and past tense, respectively.

OK. But in my Aikido's dojo, we use at the end of the class when an expert is coming:

- Domo arigato gozaimashita.

Is it correct in this context? Why the past and not the present?

If it's correct, I was thinking that the past tense in this context is more polite that the present tense, but I may be wrong...

[Bueller_007]

What's the difference between gozaimasu and gozaimashita?

Present tense and past tense, respectively.

OK. But in my Aikido's dojo, we use at the end of the class when an expert is coming:

- Domo arigato gozaimashita.

Is it correct in this context? Why the past and not the present?

You answered your own question:
It's the *end* of class.

[Abrassart]

You answered your own question:
It's the *end* of class.

You want to say that the correct translation would be:

- We thank you for the teaching that we had during the class.

And this idea of "that we had during the class" is imply in the gozaimashita past tense form?

Fascinating.

[Bueller_007]

You answered your own question:
It's the *end* of class.

You want to say that the correct translation would be:

- We thank you for the teaching that we had during the class.

And this idea of "that we had during the class" is imply in the gozaimashita past tense form?

Fascinating.

http://www.japanesepod101.com/forum/vie ... =4645#4645