Furimuku vs Furimukasetai

[mark_498727]

Hi,

Hope someone can help here!

I understand that furimuku can mean to turn around and that -tai would stress the wanting to do something... so my question is how does one change furimuku into furimukasetai? Is this a grammar issue? Am I even on the right track? I have read that furimukasetai translates to something like want to make you turn around?

Thanks.

[mmmason8967]

Hi,

Hope someone can help here!

I understand that furimuku can mean to turn around and that -tai would stress the wanting to do something... so my question is how does one change furimuku into furimukasetai? Is this a grammar issue? Am I even on the right track? I have read that furimukasetai translates to something like want to make you turn around?

Thanks.

Taking a straightforward verb such as taberu, as you said, you remove ru and replace with tai, giving tabetai meaning "want to eat something".

If you change the ending from ru to saseru, you get tabesaseru, which is the Causative form and means to let somebody (or make somebody) eat something. This form is itself a Group 2 verb, just like the taberu we started with. That means you can remove ru and replace it with tai to mean "want to make (or let) someone eat something".

Furimuku is a Group 1 verb so the Causative form is slightly different: it's furimukaseru. But the causative form is always a Group 2 verb even if it is formed from a Group 1 verb. So we can remove ru and replace it with tai meaning "want to make someone turn around".

Hope that helps!

マイケル

[mark_498727]

Thanks for the reply, I think it helped lots... So, if I understand correctly, when we use the -tai form we add -tai to the stem of the verb in question, and if we have furimukaseru, then because

But the causative form is always a Group 2 verb even if it is formed from a Group 1 verb.

the stem becomes furimukase, hence we write furimukasetai? Should this generally be written as one word? Because when I first saw this it was written as furi mukasetai.

[mmmason8967]

When it comes to writing Japanese in roumaji I don't think there are any hard-and-fast rules, so you can probably write it as either furimukasetai or furi mukasetai. I guess it depends on your point of view: I understand that some people see the masu ending as a separate word, apparently because long ago it started out as a verb that was used to make sentences more polite and sophisticated, and they prefer tabe masu to tabemasu.

At any rate, Japanese does tend to use verb endings attached to a verb stem that can then be conjugated by attaching another verb ending to the stem of the previous verb ending. This can start to look pretty complicated when written in roumaji and it sometimes helps to break it up a bit, although I think hyphens work better than spaces. For example, we made the causative form of taberu by taking the stem and adding saseru, giving tabe-saseru, meaning "to make (or let) someone eat". Similarly you can make the passive form of taberu by taking the stem and adding rareru, giving tabe-rareru, meaning "to be eaten". The causative and the passive forms both conjugate as a Group 2 verb.

And since the causative tabe-saseru is a Group 2 verb, you can make it passive by taking the stem and adding rareru, giving tabe-sase-rareru. This is the causative-passive form, used when you are made to do something by somebody else (and usually aren't too happy about it). We can make it polite by attaching a masu ending to the stem. Let's go for the past tense, which gives us:-

tabe-sase-rare-mashita
I was made to eat it.

With the hyphens I think it looks less intimidating than it does without them. You can do the same kind of thing with tai except that when tai is added to a verb, it becomes an i-adjective and you conjugate it the same way you would conjugate any other i-adjective. You can add tai to the causative stem or the passive stem, but I don't think you can sensibly add it to the causative-passive stem because the causative-passive is used for things you don't want to do, so it'd end up being a contradiction.

マイケル

[community.japanese]

mark san,
If you have questions again, please feel free to ask us.

マイケルさん、
いつもどうもありがとうございます。
すばらしい説明です。

Yuki 　由紀
Team JapanesePod101.com