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Finishing up Riddling Ruffians

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andycarmenjapanese8100
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Finishing up Riddling Ruffians

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » January 12th, 2014 4:30 pm

I'm almost finished with intermediate lesson 29, however there are a handful of minor things I'm not sure about:

Aru hi, Ojiisan ga sono uramichi o tōtte sūpā ni ikimashita.
One day the old man took a back street to go to the supermarket.

"Omae, ima kara ore no dasu nazonazo o tokere ba michi o tōtte ii ga, tokenakere ba omae o bukkorosu zo. Wakatta ka?"
"If you can solve the following riddle, you can pass, but if you fail, you're dead. Got it?"


I'm not sure what this is. The kanji is "通って" which a translator tells me means "kayotte" (to commute) which would make sense. Is "toutte" another word for "kayotte"? Slang or something?

Sō shita ra, soba o urouro suru mono ga arimashita.
Then he saw something lurking near him.


Isn't "soba de urouro (o) suru..." more logical? I don't know why "soba" takes the particle "o" when it describes the place where the action is happening and the object of the verb (suru) is "urouro".

Sore o mite, Chirō no hō wa kibun o gaishimashita.
Upon seeing this, Chiro became worried.

Soshite, sūpā no hō e arukidashimashita.
With that, he started walking towards the supermarket.


Mystery "no hou" in both of these sentences. Anybody know what it is?

"Kono jijii, ore o mite mo odoroki mo shinaide, yōshi, chotto kowai tokoto o misete yaruka" to omotte,
He thought to himself, "This old man is not afraid of me! Alright, I'll show him something scary."


This is a PDF typo. They meant to write "tokoro." I've seen this before as a verb suffix to indicate "just about to" or "in the middle of" or "just finished" an action. "Kowai" isn't a verb though, and I'm not sure any of those would be accurate here. Maybe it's "place" or "part" - "I'll show him a scary part?" - I think "thing" is more likely but I don't know if I can stretch the definition of "tokoro" that far.

"Iku zo. Ryōri ni tsukau kedo, katakute taberarenai pan wa?" to nazokake shimashita.
"Here we go! What is a pan that is too hard to eat even though you can use it for cooking," he asked.


"Nazo" comes from "nazonazo" (riddle) but I'm not sure why it becomes "nazokake" or what "nazokake" even is.

Chirō wa, "Hōra, itta darō, motto kowagare, motto kirei ni shite yaru zo!"
"Be more afraid, I'll make it even more beautiful, just watch!"


The kanji (with the help of a translator) tells me this was "itta" (said) rather than "itta" (came).

That's past tense but it's followed by "darou" which is kind of future tense - "will be".

"I said, didn't I?" - like "I told you I was going to do this"?

Ojiisan to obāsan wa hoka no rōjin tachi to issho ni gōtei de shiawase ni kurashimashita to sa.

"The end"?

Tracel
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Re: Finishing up Riddling Ruffians

Postby Tracel » January 12th, 2014 5:10 pm

Hi Andy,

I'm not sure what this is. The kanji is "通って" which a translator tells me means "kayotte" (to commute) which would make sense. Is "toutte" another word for "kayotte"? Slang or something?


This kanji can be read several different ways. 'kayo-u' is one, but in this case it is a bit tricky because 'too-ru' is another. Notice that it is two 'oo's and not 'ou'. This happens in several elongated vowel sounds in some words. 'too-ru' means 'to go by, or to go past'. So the base form of the verb would look like this: 通る - とおる. :D

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Re: Finishing up Riddling Ruffians

Postby Tracel » January 12th, 2014 5:19 pm

Isn't "soba de urouro (o) suru..." more logical? I don't know why "soba" takes the particle "o" when it describes the place where the action is happening and the object of the verb (suru) is "urouro".

This is one of those pesky uses of 'o', whereby 'o' indicates an area that is being traversed'. 'o' has as many as six uses that I can tell you of. This is from my dictionary app 'Imiwa':

1. Indicates direct object of action.
2. Indicates subject of causative expression.
3. Indicates an area traversed.
4. Indicates time (period) over which action takes place.
5. Indicates point of departure or separation of action
6. Indicates object of desire, like, hate, etc.

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Re: Finishing up Riddling Ruffians

Postby Tracel » January 12th, 2014 5:43 pm

Mystery "no hou" in both of these sentences. Anybody know what it is?

1. Sore o mite, Chirō no hō wa kibun o gaishimashita.
Upon seeing this, Chiro became worried.

2. Soshite, sūpā no hō e arukidashimashita.
With that, he started walking towards the supermarket.

The expression 'no hou' means 'direction towards' in a way. You can see this in 2. quite clearly. He went 'towards' the supermarket. In 1. the meaning is much more figurative. It emphasizes that "it is Chiro that became worried and not the old man. So, the worry was in "Chiro's" direction. We will often translate this version as 'for' in English.

For example: Watashi no hou ga, kowakatta yo. 'For me it was scary' (even though it wasn't for you).

"Kono jijii, ore o mite mo odoroki mo shinaide, yōshi, chotto kowai tokoto o misete yaruka" to omotte,
He thought to himself, "This old man is not afraid of me! Alright, I'll show him something scary."


I believe 'tokoro' may just mean 'place' here, although it is not translated into 'something' in the English. So:
"I will show him a place that is scary". I am guessing though. :mrgreen:

I will look at the other questions in a little while,
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Tracel
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Re: Finishing up Riddling Ruffians

Postby Tracel » January 13th, 2014 5:33 am

To finish up:

Nazokake is described by my dictionary as 'a particular type of riddle'. The word nazo by itself can also mean riddle. It does not need to be repeated like nazonazo.

Chirō wa, "Hōra, itta darō, motto kowagare, motto kirei ni shite yaru zo!"
"Be more afraid, I'll make it even more beautiful, just watch!"


In this case 'itta darō' is asking a retorical question: "Didn't I just tell you?". 'darō' gives the sense of doubt or 'probably' and not necesarilly the future aspect.

Ojiisan to obāsan wa hoka no rōjin tachi to issho ni gōtei de shiawase ni kurashimashita to sa.


Yup, 'The End'. Fairy tale style. :mrgreen:

Tracel
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Re: Finishing up Riddling Ruffians

Postby community.japanese » January 15th, 2014 7:58 am

Andy-san, トラさん、
kon'nichiwa!
Thank you very much for a great explanations, トラsan :kokoro:

I'd just add one little note about "urouro suru".
This is not "urouro o suru", but it's a "verb". It can be "soba o urouro suru" or "soba de urouro suru", but the
meanings are of course different (because of different particles, obviously).

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

andycarmenjapanese8100
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Re: Finishing up Riddling Ruffians

Postby andycarmenjapanese8100 » January 15th, 2014 6:12 pm

That explains everything. Thanks to you both.

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Re: Finishing up Riddling Ruffians

Postby community.japanese » January 16th, 2014 7:29 am

Andy-san,
you're welcome! :wink:

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

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