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Grammar help (たびに)

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newyears072399
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Grammar help (たびに)

Postby newyears072399 » November 18th, 2013 1:07 pm

I'm working on grammar at the moment, and I'm not sure if the sentence I have constructed is correct. Any feed back would be appreciated. I was also wondering if this would be considered a n3 level sentence.

内をでるたびに雨がふりはじめている。
whenever I leave my house it starts raining.
Last edited by newyears072399 on November 18th, 2013 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mewes6190
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Joined: June 11th, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Grammar help (たびに)

Postby mewes6190 » November 18th, 2013 2:40 pm

newyears-san,

welcome to the forums! :)

I can only give you my thoughts, I'm not a pro myself, but I have some thoughts about it.
At first, I think that 内 is the wrong kanji for house. It should be 家 I think.
Then it took me some time to decipher the お, until I got it, that you most probably meant を, which is spoken "o", but written with "wo".

Then, I think that it should be the te-form of ふる, not the masu-stem ふり, because there are two verbs in succession, which often is described by the te-form in my experience. And at last, but here I'm the most unsure, the te-iru form at the end strikes me as unfitting, because it would mean that something is in the state of beginning, or in the habit of beginning. That's not neccessarily wrong in the context, but I'd guess that the habit that leaves to the raining is the leaving, so I would rather put the te-iru in the front to the leaving.
So, my suggestion to the sentence would be:
家をでっているたびに、雨がふってはじめる。

But I might be dead wrong with this. I'm anxious for other peoples input. :)

Best
くろくま

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newyears072399
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Posts: 5
Joined: October 23rd, 2013 8:46 am

Re: Grammar help (たびに)

Postby newyears072399 » November 18th, 2013 3:39 pm

Ah, I mistakenly used the wrong character. I tend to do that if I am not paying attention. I will fix that right now. Thank you for pointing that out. I am unsure when 内 (uchi), and 家 (ie) are interchangeable. I often see 内 used to indicate one's home. Now, regarding ふる, from what I understand one should use the masu stem of a verb when using はじめる as an auxiliary verb to indicate the start of an action.

mewes6190
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Posts: 132
Joined: June 11th, 2013 2:30 pm

Re: Grammar help (たびに)

Postby mewes6190 » November 18th, 2013 4:41 pm

Funny, I've never seen 内 been used for house, always just 家, whether it's uchi or ie. Maybe someone knows, when 内 is considered appropriate?!? (People here tend to know stuff like that! :D)

As I said, I'm no pro and most idiomatic sentence patterns (There are just so many!!) are not too well known by me, so maybe the masu stem is correct with はじめる。 I'm still a Beginner myself, and there might well be that pattern. I'd have too look it up. :)
If you have just learned it that way, you're most likely correct. :)

またね
くろくま

Tracel
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Re: Grammar help (たびに)

Postby Tracel » November 18th, 2013 5:38 pm

newyears-san, くろくまさん、おはいようございます(カナダでね)。

内をでるたびに雨がふりはじめている。
whenever I leave my house it starts raining.

Funny, I've never seen 内 been used for house, always just 家, whether it's uchi or ie. Maybe someone knows, when 内 is considered appropriate?!? (People here tend to know stuff like that! :D)


Newyearsさん、このフォラムにようこそ。

I have a few ideas for you regarding this sentence. 
First, I am pretty sure that you used your goal grammar point たびに correctly, meaning 'whenever'.

Second, about the use of 内 vs. 家. When you are referring to your own house or home I think you can use 内 with the pronunciation of uchi. If you use 家, then I believe it would be pronounced ie in this context. Both would be translated as home here. 内 is used to indicate a place or family or even a company that you are a part of. A point that I learned from 奈津子先生 is that if you are in doubt about a kanji to use, then use hiragana instead. That is what is great about Japanese; you have so many choices. :twisted:

Third, I would use a different auxiliary verb to indicate that it "starts raining", [-dasu]. The tense of the verb before たびに  is restricted to non-past format. I am not sure about the tense of the last verb in this case though, but maybe it can be either progressive or plain present tense. Maybe we need a native speaker for this distinction.

内を出るたびに、雨が降り出します。
Whenever I leave home, it starts to rain.

内を出るたびに、雨が降り出しています。???
Whenever I leave home, it starts raining.

Hope I didn't lead you astray :P

お元気で、
トラ
ごきげんよう、
トラセル

Tracel
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Joined: June 25th, 2013 5:15 pm

Re: Grammar help (たびに)

Postby Tracel » November 18th, 2013 5:45 pm

Oops. I forgot to answer this one. You are correct that as an auxiliary verb, はじめる takes the V-masu form.
Now, regarding ふる, from what I understand one should use the masu stem of a verb when using はじめる as an auxiliary verb to indicate the start of an action.


So we get a sentence like:

あしたからレポートを書きはじめます。
I'll begin to write my paper tomorrow.

トラ
ごきげんよう、
トラセル

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