くろくまからの手紙 - Letters from Kurokuma

[mewes6190]

皆さん、
はじめまして。くろくまです。どうぞよろしくお願いします。
これは手紙を書いて始まりたいです。日本語では読んでと聞いてだけ勉強するできませんと思います。書いてと話してもべきであります。
ミスがあっても、上達します。
そんな訳で私ついて語りたいです。
私はドイツ人です。日本語を暇に勉強します。趣味です。一回目１０年前に始まりました。でも、時間がなかったので、５年ぐらい前にやめりました。今、多少の月までもう勉強します。
日本の本を読めたいんで、映画やテレビショーを見れたいんです。不変化詞は一番難しくてことがあると思います。
あなたはどうですか。ご出身はどちらでしょうか。日本語はどうして勉強したいでしょうか。私はもっとわかりたいんでしょう。

また後で
くろくま

Hello everyone.
I‘m Kurokuma. Nice to meet you.
With this I want to start some letters to you. You can‘t learn japanese just by reading and listening. You have to write and speak too. Even if you make mistakes, you get better.
That‘s why I want to tell a little bit about myself. I‘m German. I‘m learning japanese in my freetime. It‘s my hobby. I first started about ten years ago, but about 5 years ago I stopped because I didn‘t have time anymore. Now I‘m learning again for a couple of months.
I want to be able to read japanese novels and watch japanese movies and TV-shows.
How about you? Where are you from? Why are you learning japanese?
I‘d like to know more.

See you
Kurokuma

[community.japanese]

くろくまさん、
こんにちは
日本語の練習のための新しいフォーラムを開いてくれてありがとうございます！
他の人も参加してくれるかな？
Hello.
Thank you very much for opening a new forum thread to practice Japanese!
Hope others will aslo join us!

Here's some feedback and advice from me:
1. これは手紙を書いて始まりたいです。With this I want to start some letters to you.
=> Would it be みなさんに手紙を書きたいと思います。 which is literally "I'd like to write letters to you all"?

2. 日本語では読んでと聞いてだけ勉強するできませんと思います。書いてと話してもべきであります。
You can‘t learn japanese just by reading and listening. You have to write and speak too.
=> You're very right! And this is a very important message which has one of the key grammar in Japanese.
Please see the corrected sentence below.
日本語は、読んだり聞いたりするだけでは勉強できないと思います。書いたり話したりもするべきです。

3. 日本語を暇に勉強します。趣味です。
I‘m learning japanese in my freetime. It‘s my hobby.
=> That's a lovely hobby!
The word 暇 is a tricky word, as far as its usage is concerned, and "in my free time" in Japanese is
暇な時に
暇な時に、日本語を勉強します。

4. 一回目１０年前に始まりました。でも、時間がなかったので、５年ぐらい前にやめりました。
I first started about ten years ago, but about 5 years ago I stopped because I didn‘t have time anymore.
=> Oh, that's a pity, but it was probably just not right time for you then
There can be several different ways to say "I first started about ten years ago", but how about this one?
初めて日本語を勉強したのは10年前です。(Lit. The first time I studied Japanese was 10 years ago.)
OR
私は10年前に日本語を勉強し始めました。(Lit. I started studying Japanese 10 years ago.)
And then,
でも、時間がなかったので、5年ぐらい前にやめました。
It's やめました not やめりました

5．今、多少の月までもう勉強します。
Now I‘m learning again for a couple of months.
=> Considering the "flow" of your composition, I think it'd be better to say
そして、数ヶ月前に勉強を再開しました。 (Lit. And, I re-started my study some months ago.)
If it was "a couplet of months" (= 2 months), it can be 2か月前 instead of 数ヶ月前
we just don't have "a couple of months" in Japanese, and we simply say ２～３ヶ月for such cases

6. 日本の本を読めたいんで、映画やテレビショーを見れたいんです。
I want to be able to read japanese novels and watch japanese movies and TV-shows.
=> 日本の本を読んだり、日本の映画やテレビのショーを見たりできるようになりたいんです。
This is a bit difficult perhaps. Please check the corrected sentence above.

7. 不変化詞は一番難しくてことがあると思います。
=> I believe it was supposed to be
不規則変化動詞は、一番難しいと思います。
(Lit. I think irregular conjugation verbs are the most difficult.)

8. 私はもっとわかりたいんでしょう。 また後で
I‘d like to know more. See you.
=> I think the best and the most natural way to say "I'd like to know more" in this context would be
(みなさんのことを) いろいろ知りたいです。 in Japanese. This is not a literal translation, but
this is how we say in this situation/composition. Then, ではまた (or またね in a casual way) would be
better, as we use また後で when we literally meet each other later on (in most case, later on the same day).

On the whole, you did very well
Please feel free to ask us any questions after seeing my feedbacks and corrections!
Some sentences needed different grammar patterns and perhaps some of them are the grammar points
that you haven't learned yet. In that case, you don't have to worry too much about details, and you can
just remember/memorise the whole sentence as "it is"

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[Teabag]

くろくまさん、
はじめまして、Teabagと申します。
くろくまさんの手紙のおかげて、奈津子先生の周りに後光を見るそうです。
いつも精一杯に私たちにサポートしてくれる先生は日本語の聖者に見たいんです 。

くろくまさんはラッキーですよね。
そんなにすばらしい返事をもらいました。

[mmmason8967]

くろくまさん、
はじめまして。マイケルと申します。フォーラムへようこそ！

イギリスにすんでいます。家族は妻のリンダと娘のエラーと息子のサミと柴犬の士郎います（柴犬は日本の犬種です）。

日本の文化に興味があります。とくに盆栽がすきです。もちろん、いつか日本に行くのはほしいです。でもお金がちょっと。。。

奈津子先生はTeabagさんがとてもただしいです。

マイケル


Hello. I'm Michael. Welcome to the forums!

I live in the UK. My family is my wife, Linda, my daughter Ella may son Sami and Shirou the Shiba Inu (Shiba Inu is a Japanese breed of dog).

I'm interested in Japanese culture. I'm especially fond of bonsai. Naturally, I would like to go to Japan one day. But the cost is a bit of a problem...

[mmmason8967]

...と柴犬の士郎います（柴犬は日本の犬種です）。

ある日わたしたちが日本の女の人に出会いました。その女の人はいぬがすきでした。

「犬のなまえはなんですか」

「士郎です」

「白？？？？？？」

士郎は黒い柴犬です。

マイケル

[Tracel]

Kurokumaさん、ようこそ

はじめまして、
私の名前はTracel です。でも、日本語の渾名はトラです。今ビクトリア、ビーシー、カナダに住んでいます。私は結婚していて、子供が二人います。娘は二十一歳で息子は十七歳です。夫はエンジニアです。私はずっと前に大学院で言語学を勉強しました。その時日本語も勉強して、日本に二年間ぐらい住んでいました。日本にいるとき、高校の英語の先生でした。大学を出たあと、専業母と主婦になりました。長い間、日本語を使わなかったから、下手になってしまったと思います。

今の趣味は、ジュエリーとかキルトなどのような美術工芸を作るのは好きです。ハイキングも好きです。Wild ARCという野生動物の回復病院で、一週間に二、三回ボランテイアします。

今度の九月に、私はUVIC大学でもう一度大学院生になります。日本の神話学と妖怪について研究しようと思っています。それで、私の日本語の能力を強化しなきゃならないと思います。
どうぞよろしくお願いします。

とら

[mewes6190]

皆さん,
thanks for all the lovely replies!
I'll need a bit to work through it though! I wanna try to reply in japanese. Great practice.

くろくま

[mewes6190]

奈津子さん,

thank you very, very much for your comments and help!
Actually, I already got quite a bit of sentence patterns and grammar points, but as I said, only in understanding. The hard part is knowing them, when using japanese, and knowing when to use which form or sentence pattern. That said, I do indeed have some questions!

他の人も参加してくれるかな？
Hope others will aslo join us!

I get the てくれる-part. It's that someone did something for me - is that right? But I don't get the かな-part. Is that the "hope" in the sentence? How is that last part constructed?

1. これは手紙を書いて始まりたいです。With this I want to start some letters to you.
=> Would it be みなさんに手紙を書きたいと思います。 which is literally "I'd like to write letters to you all"?

That one sounds much more natural. Anyway, 3 questions remain:
1. Why is it と思います? I was under the impression that's only for things I think or opinions. Is it for intentions also?
2. If I wanted to keep the "to start" connotation, would it have to be みなさんに手紙を書きたいを始まります?
3. How would the sentence pattern be if I wanted to say "I want to start doing somethingsomething?" My guess would still be "somethinsomething-て始まりたいです".

2. which has one of the key grammar in Japanese.
Please see the corrected sentence below.
日本語は、読んだり聞いたりするだけでは勉強できないと思います。書いたり話したりもするべきです。

Ah, I always forget the -たり -たり construction. Thanks for the reminder. Do I always have to conclude that with する or only in this case?

3. 日本語を暇に勉強します。趣味です。
I‘m learning japanese in my freetime. It‘s my hobby.
=> That's a lovely hobby!
The word 暇 is a tricky word, as far as its usage is concerned, and "in my free time" in Japanese is
暇な時に
暇な時に、日本語を勉強します。

Thanks. It's a much fun hobby too.
I get the tricky part about 暇 now. I guess I just have to remember that for next time. But the questions 暇ですか is correct, when asking someone if he/she has time to spare, yes?

4. 一回目１０年前に始まりました。でも、時間がなかったので、５年ぐらい前にやめりました。
I first started about ten years ago, but about 5 years ago I stopped because I didn‘t have time anymore.
=> Oh, that's a pity, but it was probably just not right time for you then
There can be several different ways to say "I first started about ten years ago", but how about this one?
初めて日本語を勉強したのは10年前です。(Lit. The first time I studied Japanese was 10 years ago.)
OR
私は10年前に日本語を勉強し始めました。(Lit. I started studying Japanese 10 years ago.)
And then,
でも、時間がなかったので、5年ぐらい前にやめました。
It's やめました not やめりました

Yeah, I really didn't get forward during my university years.
Your alternatives are much better of course. I'll try to remember them If I get to a similar sentence construction again.
And sometimes it's hard to differ godan-verbs from ichidan-verbs when they're ending in る. So やめる is ichidan. check!

5．今、多少の月までもう勉強します。
Now I‘m learning again for a couple of months.
=> Considering the "flow" of your composition, I think it'd be better to say
そして、数ヶ月前に勉強を再開しました。 (Lit. And, I re-started my study some months ago.)
If it was "a couplet of months" (= 2 months), it can be 2か月前 instead of 数ヶ月前
we just don't have "a couple of months" in Japanese, and we simply say ２～３ヶ月for such cases

No, it's a couple. I think 4 months by now. I didn't know that japanese didn't have "a couple of months". Very important information. So I would have to say: ４月ぐらい前にもう始まりました。 (Your alternative is much better of course, but I didn't know the vocab like 再開する... But I do now! )
Oh, and: why is it written 数ヶ but read すうか? What exactly is the ヶ?

6. 日本の本を読めたいんで、映画やテレビショーを見れたいんです。
I want to be able to read japanese novels and watch japanese movies and TV-shows.
=> 日本の本を読んだり、日本の映画やテレビのショーを見たりできるようになりたいんです。
This is a bit difficult perhaps. Please check the corrected sentence above.

Of course! *hand-slaps-forehead*
Another great example that I know the sentence pattern but don't get it to my head when using japanese.
Again the -たり -たり construction from above (And again with the plain form, this time できる, so I guess the plain form is neccessary after -たり -たり. Just to answer my own question from above.)
And ように　なる is the sentence pattern to explain, that one is getting better / good at something. Or in this case: WANT to get better / good at something.
Is that correct?
That's what I meant: the hardest part in a new language isn't to understand a sentence pattern, but to get them stored away in a way that you can use them when neccessary.

7. 不変化詞は一番難しくてことがあると思います。
=> I believe it was supposed to be
不規則変化動詞は、一番難しいと思います。
(Lit. I think irregular conjugation verbs are the most difficult.)

It actually was supposed to mean particles... I never know when to use which one.
I looked that up, maybe I got it wrong.

8. 私はもっとわかりたいんでしょう。 また後で
I‘d like to know more. See you.
=> I think the best and the most natural way to say "I'd like to know more" in this context would be
(みなさんのことを) いろいろ知りたいです。 in Japanese. This is not a literal translation, but
this is how we say in this situation/composition.

Ah, of course I didn't know that. That too, I will try to remember for next time.

Then, ではまた (or またね in a casual way) would be
better, as we use また後で when we literally meet each other later on (in most case, later on the same day).

There are so many different ways to say "bye" in japanese... I guess there only stays the trial and error way, or is there any other way?
I'll remember that one too.

I thank you very much for your effort, really. It's helping me so much!! I know there's still a lot of work ahead of me, but getting my mistakes shown really helps to know where to work. So I truly appreciate it. どうもありがとうございました。

You left me with some things to ponder upon. I'll try to find similar sentences in my next "letters" to keep practicing them.

またね
くろくま

[mewes6190]

Teabag-さん、
こんにちは。返事のどうもありがとう。私はとても嬉しいでした。
本当にたくさんラッキーですよ。奈津子先生は本当にとても温かて、援助ですよね。:)
我々皆ラッキーでと思います。

ではまた
くろくま

Hello Teabag,
thank you for your answer. I was really happy about it.
I‘m really very lucky. 奈津子先生 really is very nice and a real help, isn‘t she?
I think we‘re all lucky (to have her).

good-bye
くろくま
(I hope I got your letter right, otherwise feel free to help me out. )

[Tracel]

1. これは手紙を書いて始まりたいです。With this I want to start some letters to you.
=> Would it be みなさんに手紙を書きたいと思います。 which is literally "I'd like to write letters to you all"?

That one sounds much more natural. Anyway, 3 questions remain:
1. Why is it と思います? I was under the impression that's only for things I think or opinions. Is it for intentions also?
2. If I wanted to keep the "to start" connotation, would it have to be みなさんに手紙を書きたいを始まります?
3. How would the sentence pattern be if I wanted to say "I want to start doing somethingsomething?" My guess would still be "somethinsomething-て始まりたいです".

Kurokumaさん、

I can answer a couple of your questions, I think.
１．と思います　Is often used to soften any sentence that is showing your own thoughts and ideas. Even if you wouldn't really use it in English much, you see it all the time in Japanese.

２．To ”begin to do something” you can use　Vmasu + はじめる：
明日からレポートを書きはじめます。　I'll begin to write my paper tomorrow.
Note that it does not use the て　form of the verb, but the verb Vmasu form.

3. To show intention or the sense of "I am going to do...." you need the volitional form of a verb +と思っています.
明日、レポートを書こうと思っています。　I am going to write my paper tomorrow.　（No sense of "begin" though).　But I believe that "want" cancels out "intention". Even in English, you can either "want" to do something or "intend" to do something, but not both in one sentence.

Unfortunately, putting all of those meanings together is beyond me. You may be able to say something like the sentence below, but we may have to wait for 奈津子先生 to help us here. 奈津子先生、よろしくお願いします 。　 Something to keep in mind, is that the Japanese seem much more comfortable with letting something be "understood" in the background of conversation. English and German both require us to be explicit. I, too, want to be as literal as possible, but my Japanese always ends up sounding quite unnatural.

My attempt: 皆さんに手紙を書きはじめようと思っています。　（This is missing the "want" part though)
So maybe:　皆さんに手紙を書きはじめたいと思います。（Again, the と思います　Just softens the sentence.)

Thanks for starting the new thread.
トラ

[mewes6190]

トラさん、
thank you a lot for your explanations. They're really helpful, I think I understand them. Hopefully I'm able to use them.
I still didn't get around to answer your (or Michael-sans) mail. But I'll come around to it. Just wanted to leave a quick thanks for your efforts, I really appreciate them.

3. To show intention or the sense of "I am going to do...." you need the volitional form of a verb +と思っています.
明日、レポートを書こうと思っています。　I am going to write my paper tomorrow.　（No sense of "begin" though).　But I believe that "want" cancels out "intention". Even in English, you can either "want" to do something or "intend" to do something, but not both in one sentence.

Hmm, might be a problem with me being a german native speaker. In german we have the word "moechte", which is some sort of allrounder, used for wants, intentions, needs, and even as a softener for things we do. It's used pretty often, translates into "want" and maybe I'm just stuck with the idea of using the word "moechte", or "want" in a typical german sense.

So, this:

Something to keep in mind, is that the Japanese seem much more comfortable with letting something be "understood" in the background of conversation. English and German both require us to be explicit. I, too, want to be as literal as possible, but my Japanese always ends up sounding quite unnatural.

is a very good advice. I still need to get the hang of these japanese novelties.

Thanks for starting the new thread.

My pleasure!
Thanks for participating.

くろくま

[Tracel]

Kurokumaさん、

You are very welcome. It really helps me to look these points up as well. It is much more fun learning another language with others don't you think?　No worries with answering us right away. I have a lot of time on my hands at the moment, so can take extra time to play on the Forum. Everything will change in September.

Hmm, might be a problem with me being a german native speaker. In german we have the word "moechte", which is some sort of allrounder, used for wants, intentions, needs, and even as a softener for things we do. It's used pretty often, translates into "want" and maybe I'm just stuck with the idea of using the word "moechte", or "want" in a typical german sense.

Sorry, actually, now that you mention it, English uses the construction "would like to..." to convey the same thing as "moechte". It keeps things polite, and conveys wants, intentions, needs, etc..

I speak a little German too, (it was my second, second language for my Master's degree). そのうえで、私の夫の家族がドイツ家なので、父さんたちと一緒に夕ご飯を食べるとき、いつも皆がドイツ語を話しました。最初に、私は全然わからなかったので、さびしかったのです。だから、ドイツ語を勉強することにしました。(Also, my husband's family is from Germany, and when we ate dinner together at my father-in-law's, everyone always spoke German. At first, because I couldn't understand anything, I was a bit lonely. That is why I decided to study German.)

ドイツ語を習うことは難しいですが、大好きです。　I love the word "moechte”

Bye for now
トラ

[mewes6190]

マイケルさん、
こんにちは。お返事とフォーラムヘ迎接いただきまして、ありがとうございました。（私はちょっと敬語を練習します。）
マイケルさんのご家族は面白くて人だろうと思います。格別に犬の士郎は。（それ名前は「アップルシ－ド」と「攻殻機動隊」の士郎へ由来しましたか?）
私は柴犬を知りました。あのビデオが好きです。（夢を見ての柴犬です）http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kIJqXLMLwc

士郎の名前のストーリーが笑われりましたよ。私のフォラムの名前も似たれきしがあります。日本語を勉強し始めましたのとき、ドイツの子供の本の日本語訳を買いました。「しろくまくん、どこへ？」と言います。有名な白熊の子供のストーリーです。そのときには私が色を練習しましたが、それだから白熊とくろくまを挿げ替えりました。これは私のハンドル名の歴史です。

またね
くろくま


Hello マイケルさん,
I thank you very much for your answer and the greeting to the forum. (I‘m practicing my Keigo a bit here.)
Your family seems to be fun people. Especially Shirō (Is that name taken from the Shirō who made „Appleseed“ and "Ghost in the Shell"?)
I already knew about shina dogs. I love this video (It‘s a dreaming shiba-inu).
The story about Shirōs name made me laugh. The story of my Forum-name is also similar.
At the time when I started studying japanese, I bought the japanese translation of a german childrensbook. „Where are you going, little polar bear“ was it‘s title. It‘s a story about a famous polar-bear child. At that time, I practiced the colors, so I simply switched white-bear to black-bear. That‘s the story behind my nickname.

so long
くろくま

[mmmason8967]

お返事とフォーラムヘ迎接いただきまして、ありがとうございました。

お返事とフォーラムヘ迎接下さって、ありがとうございました。

くろくまさんが「いただきました」。でもぼくが「下さいました」。

マイケル

[mewes6190]

マイケルさん、
thanks for your correction. I'm a bit confused though. Isn't いただく the 敬語 version of もらう?
And 下さい the 敬語 version of くらう?
My workbook suggests, (at least I understood it that way) that in this case the もらう-form is more appropriate and therefore I chose 迎接いただきまして.
Why do you think that 迎接下さって is more fitting?
I would like your thoughts on that for a clearer understanding, if you would like to elaborate.

Greetings
くろくま