Create your own sentence using the Word of the Day!

[ericf]

You've made me double check :)
kana only I'm afraid but here are the various forms of utsu...
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi- ... %A4%C4_v5t

[andycarmenjapanese8100]

You've made me double check
kana only I'm afraid but here are the various forms of utsu...
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi- ... %A4%C4_v5t

Why though? Is "utsu" irregular or do all verbs that end with "su" drop both letters?

[community.japanese]

andy-san, eric-san, マイケルsan,
kon'nichiwa!
Wow, how lovely to see posts from three keen learners!!
I'll just jump into it from here Hope it won't stop your converstaion though!

1. passive form of "utsu"
This verb utsu is a group 1 (godan) verb, so the nai-form (negative form) is "uta nai". When we make passive form,
we can drop this "nai" from nai-form first, which makes it "uta" here.
Then, for group 1 verb, add "reru" to make passive form, so it becomes "uta reru".

Like Eric-san perfectly spotted...
watashi no inu wa tokkyuu wo uteru -> my dog can hit the train. (kowaiyo!)
This sentence means the very different thing and your dog might be a monster like Godzilla

2. マイケルsan's DVD sentences
Brilliant! It's an interesting and complicated argue
The answer to your question is, yes, we can make passive sentences with direct object. First, let's see the translation ('cause it's easier )
I bought a DVD. 私はDVDを買いました。
The DVD was bought (by me).　DVDは、（私に）買われました。
I gave the DVD to Eric.　私は、エリックにDVDをあげました。
Eric was given a DVD by me.　エリックは、私にDVDをあげられました。(* it's not very correct)
Now, "to give" is a tricky verb when it's passive, so we don't really say the last sentence. Still, you can see that direct object DVD is marked with the particle "o".
Let's change the verb to 買いました here. The key point here is that, in Japanese, when it involves indirect object or
intransitive verb, it can add the meanings of "unwanted" or "bothering" (= 迷惑) and the meaning also might change.
エリックは、私にDVDを買われました。　
I'm not 100% sure how I can translate this sentence into English, because this usage doesn't exist in English, but this sentence means that Eric is not happy about "I" having bought (this) DVD although it's not mentioned clearly.
Same thing applies to エリックは、私にDVDを渡されました (to make it perfectly correct, I changed the verb from あげる to 渡す)。 This means literally, "Eric was given/handed a DVD by me" but it implies (or probably suggests more clearly) that Eric is feeling bothered, disturbed or disgusted by being given a DVD.

In order to avoid such negative or unhappy feelings, we need to use "ageru", "kureru" or "morau" to describe certain appreciation. When those expressions involves 私, it's more complicated, so I'd replace it with マイケル
エリックは、マイケルにDVDを買ってもらいました。OR エリックは、マイケルにDVDを渡してもらいました。

3. suggestion
The translation for "to hit" can be "utsu", but we have better verb to use in Andy-san's sentence.
Watashi no inu wa tokkyuu ni hikareta. (My dog was hit by the express train.)
The verb "hiku" can mean "to get run over" by a car, train, motorcycle, bike....
So, when we describe such accidents, we usually say "... ni hikareru/hikareta"

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[mmmason8967]

"Utsu" ends in "u" not "ru" so I'm not sure why the passive is "utareru" rather than "utsareru"?

I thought the last two letters were only dropped when the verb ended in "ru"?

Why though? Is "utsu" irregular or do all verbs that end with "su" drop both letters?

I think maybe you're having a roumaji-induced moment here…

It's u-tsu, not ut-su. It's a regular five-way (godan) verb: the root part is 'u' and the bases are formed using the t-column syllables ta, ti (chi), tu (tsu), te and to, like this:-

V1　u-ta　negative base (e.g. utanai)
V2　u-ti　masu stem (e.g. uchimasu, uchitai)
V3　u-tu　dictionary form (i.e. utsu)
V4　u-te　conditional base (e.g. uteba)
V5　u-to　conjectural base (e.g. utou)

So adding reru to the V1 base to get the passive results in utareru.

マイケル

[mmmason8967]

Curses!! Ninja'ed by 奈津子さん again!!

マイケル

[ericf]

Curses!! Ninja'ed by 奈津子さん again!! :shock:

マイケル

Ha ha, me too! I got halfway through replying to your post last night, which was very useful. Thanks. I didn't know about "patient" in English so I've learnt something - every day's a school day! Now all I need to do is to somehow avoid mentioning http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116209/

奈津子先生、受身文やそれについての説明など、ありがとう。「エリックは、私にDVDを買われました。」は、英語で、
"Eric was bought a DVD by Michael." Though that ignores the "suffering" that's implied by the Japanese. You'd have to call that out more specifically. "Unfortunately, Eric was bought a DVD by Michael." perhaps?

[mmmason8967]

... In order to avoid such negative or unhappy feelings, we need to use "ageru", "kureru" or "morau" to describe certain appreciation. When those expressions involves 私, it's more complicated　...

Thank you for the wonderful detailed explanation!

I think it would be great to have a JapanesePod101 series that covered giving, taking and receiving because it seems to be a complicated area, both linguistically and culturally. There are many different verbs for giving and taking, and it is very easy to choose the wrong verb and say something offensive, quite unintentionally. You could also cover things like occasions when gift-giving is appropriate, what kind of thing is good to give (and what kind of thing isn't), and what you should do if you were to receive a gift--do you open it now, or do you open it later?

Now all I need to do is to somehow avoid mentioning http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116209/

I clicked the link. I can't believe I didn't see that coming...

マイケル

[community.japanese]

Curses!! Ninja'ed by 奈津子さん again!!

マイケル

Get in!
Yes; I'm trying to sneak in as I watch you typing... Oh, this will become my new hobby

Your explanation is again perfect! Thank you
I'm sure many listeners will appreciate our collaboration
エリックさん is right; everyday is a new school day for me too!

You're right; giving and taking expression appear quite often and, once you get used to them, they come in handy.
But those expressions involves the cultural aspects quite deeply which of course other languages probably don't have.
For instance, the verb "ageru" has a connotation of 上げる: giving something "up" to someone. That's why we can't say 私にあげる (because it means you're putting yourself in upper position/status).

Thank you very much for the suggestion! That's a brilliant idea!
If I think "very Japanese like" ( ), I think we shouldn't really open the gift when we receive it. We should at least
ask the person if we could open it. As to the gift types, there're some "unwritten rules" as well. Like, we can't take
potted plant and/or camellia when we visit someone in hospital.
I'll share your suggestion with my team. Thank you!

エリックさん、
"Unfortunately, Eric was bought a DVD by Michael." seems to be the best translation there
And, I also clicked the link...nice

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[andycarmenjapanese8100]

"Nyuusu ni yoru to doubutsuen ni jagaa o nigete imashita! Hiyaku kakurete!"
According to the news, a jaguar escaped from the zoo. Hide quickly!

[mmmason8967]

My suggestions:-

doubutsuen ni　⇒　doubutsuen kara
ni suggests 'towards' which seems to be the wrong direction.

jagaa o　⇒　jagaa ga
wo marks the direct object of the verb but jagaa is the subject.

nigete imashita 　⇒　nigemashita
I read nigete imashita as "was escaping", so I've gone for the standard past form because it implies the action has been completed.

kakurete　⇒　kakurero
kakurete is the te-form: I haven't seen it used on its own--which, of course, doesn't mean it's wrong. I went for the imperative instead. I don't think my version is very polite, though (which also means that it fails to match the previous polite verb).

マイケル

[community.japanese]

andy-san, マイケルsan,
thank you very much for the brilliant help, マイケルsan
Those explanations are perfect!

Actually, andy-san's original sentence "hayaku kakurete" is also fine.
Imperative form is, like マイケルsan wrote, "kakurero".
But in casual daily conversation, "kakurero" sounds slightly blunt or strong, and more friendly way is te-form.
It can be considered as a short/omitted version of "kakurete kudasai".

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[Tracel]

皆さん、初めまして。Tracelと申します。これは私の初めてのポーストです。 私も参加してもいいですか。I just wanted to tell you about a source for ”Transitive and Intransitive" verb pairings. I use "A Dictionary of Basic Japanese　Grammar"　and　there　is　a list　in　the　Appendix.　Japanese　transitive　and　intransitive　is a bit different from English. The words themselves actually change in Japanese as well as the particles that are used:

Intransitive 出る　（Get out） vs. Transitive　出す　（Take out)
冷える　（Get cold) vs. 冷やす　（Make cold)
開く　（Something opens) vs. 開ける　（Someone opens something)

Eg. ドアが開きました。（The door opened). Compared to　私はドアを開けました。（I opened the door).

There are quite a few of these types of transitive intransitive verb pairings.　If you look them up there are some clues to which ones are which. For example, verbs ending in す　Are almost always transitive and take the particle を。

> ケビンさん、
I kinda thought you might not have learned differences between transitive and intransitive verbs...
As Andy-san suggested the link already, hope it'd help!
Japanese verbs are sometimes difficult to tell if they're transitive or not, but you can always combine particles
and/or "subject"s (i.e. agent or action taker). For instance 落ちる and 落とす (action: to fall)
Action taker for 落ちる: object
Action taker for 落とす: person or object (not the same thing which actually falls)
In other words, 落とす needs a "object" that falls, and "someone/something" that makes it fall.
Hope it makes sense...

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com[/quote]

[andycarmenjapanese8100]

"Watashi no hisho wa sekushii da! Demo iu koto ga kowaii da. Kanojo ga keisatsu ni yobu kamo shirenai!"
My secretary is sexy! But I'm scared to tell her. She might phone the police!

[mmmason8967]

Demo iu koto ga kowaii da.
⇒　Demo iu koto ga kowai.

Kowai is an i-adjective, and i-adjectives express a state-of-being in plain form--that is, in effect they already include da, so you can't use da with them.

マイケル

[community.japanese]

andy-san, マイケルさん、
very well spotted, マイケルsan!!

"Watashi no hisho wa sekushii da! Demo iu koto ga kowai. Kanojo wa keisatsu o yobu kamo shirenai!"

Please remember the part "[someone] o yobu" with the particle "o"

Hope you're not in trouble, andy-san!

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com