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おさまりきらずに??? :-(

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dh4m13l
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おさまりきらずに??? :-(

Postby dh4m13l » September 2nd, 2012 10:45 pm

こんにちは!ダニと申します。アルゼンチン人です。I love listening to Natsuko-san and Peter-san!!! I'm about to finish Beginner Season 1.
I have a question about a sentence that I came up with playing a pokémon game in Japanese.
The sentence is as follows, it is a description of a pokémon:

体内に収まりきらずに漏れ出したエネルギーがかたまりオレンジ色の結晶になった。
たいないに おさまりきらずに もれだした エネルギーが かたまり オレンジいろの けっしょうになった。

What I'm able to understand and I'm not sure if I'm correct is:
体内に inside the body
収まりきらずに = 収まり + きら + ずに = accumulate + complete/finish + negation = not finished to accumulate
漏れ出した = leaked out
エネルギー = energy
かたまり = lump /solidified
オレンジ色 = orange color
結晶になった = became crystalized

So it would be "The leaked out energy that did not finish to accumulate inside the body, became orange lumps of crystals."
Would this be accurate?
I'm very confused by おさまりきらずに
What is きら here? A dictionary I have says that is it added to pre-masu to mean "complete/finish" then you have ずに added to pre-nai form to mean "negation", what type of negation? What is the super condensated word? I'm going crazy :-/
The Dictionaries of Basic/Intermediate/Advanced Japanese Grammar and my particle books don't tell me much :-/ This is what I was able to translate, but I'm not sure it is correct.
Could you please help me out? お願いします!!!!
本当にありがとうございます。

ericf
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Re: おさまりきらずに??? :-(

Postby ericf » September 3rd, 2012 10:51 pm

こんにちは、ダニさん。

dh4m13l wrote:So it would be "The leaked out energy that did not finish to accumulate inside the body, became orange lumps of crystals."
Would this be accurate?

That seems pretty good.


dh4m13l wrote:I'm very confused by おさまりきらずに
What is きら here?

Nearly there! The question you need to ask is "What is きらず?" And remember one of the two irregular verbs I guess you've come across - in this case 来る(くる)to come. The informal negative form of which is きらず。So:

Without coming to, and accumulating in the body, the leaked energy crystalized into orange lumps.


Actually, thinking about it, きらず could also be the informal negative form of 切る to cut which when used as an auxiliary verb like this means to finish/complete the action of the main verb, 収まる。In that case it would become more like your sentence:

Without completely accumulating in the body the leaked energy crystalized into orange lumps.

Hmmm... どちらでしょう?ちょっと混乱になってしまった、私。

エリック

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natsukoy9313
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Postby natsukoy9313 » September 4th, 2012 5:57 am

こんにちは、ダニさん、エリックさん!
First of all, great analysis, both of you!! Congratulations! :wink:

Well, ~きる/~きらない means something can be done completely (or not completely).
おさまりきらない means something didn't suit (or go in) completely. おさまりきらず is the same for this おさまりきらない.

The energy which could not remain inside the body leaked out and became orange lumps of crystals.
This could be the translation.

Hope this helps!

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

ericf
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Postby ericf » September 4th, 2012 11:07 pm

natsukoy9313 wrote:Hope this helps!


Yep, sure does. ほんとにありがとう!
エリック

dh4m13l
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Thank you!

Postby dh4m13l » September 5th, 2012 6:33 pm

I got a reply from Natsuko sensei herself!!! とても嬉しいです!
どうもありがとうございます、夏子せんせい。
And thanks a lot Eric too, your anaylisis helped me see I wasn't that lost or mistaken. Thank you so much.
I have a few more questions to post, look forward to them :D

Javizy
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Re: おさまりきらずに??? :-(

Postby Javizy » September 6th, 2012 11:49 am

ericf wrote:来る(くる)to come. The informal negative form of which is きらず。

This form is actually こず. I've never actually heard it, to be honest, but I'm sure it's used. The polite form こられず is what initially came to mind.

dh4m13l
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Re: おさまりきらずに??? :-(

Postby dh4m13l » September 6th, 2012 8:00 pm

Javizy wrote:
ericf wrote:来る(くる)to come. The informal negative form of which is きらず。

This form is actually こず. I've never actually heard it, to be honest, but I'm sure it's used. The polite form こられず is what initially came to mind.


Yes, I guess Eric meant to say きる instead.

ericf
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Re: おさまりきらずに??? :-(

Postby ericf » September 6th, 2012 8:02 pm

Javizy wrote:
ericf wrote:来る(くる)to come. The informal negative form of which is きらず。

This form is actually こず. I've never actually heard it, to be honest, but I'm sure it's used. The polite form こられず is what initially came to mind.

Thanks for the correction!

natsukoy9313
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Joined: May 11th, 2012 12:00 pm

Postby natsukoy9313 » September 7th, 2012 8:06 am

First of all, I'm glad I could help you! :wink:
And, sorry I didn't mention about 来ず. Like Javizy-san wrote, it's not used very often in daily conversation simply because this negative form is rather either written language or formal. So, for example,
乗客の1人が出発の時間までに来ず、出発が10分遅れました。
(because one passenger didn't appear on time, departure delayed by 10 minutes.)
If someone says the same thing in colloquial Japanese, it'd become;
乗客の1人が出発の時間までに来なくて、出発が10分遅れたんだ。

Just an example :wink:

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

ericf
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Postby ericf » September 9th, 2012 5:44 pm

natsukoy9313 wrote:First of all, I'm glad I could help you! :wink:
And, sorry I didn't mention about 来ず. Like Javizy-san wrote, it's not used very often in daily conversation simply because this negative form is rather either written language or formal. So, for example,
乗客の1人が出発の時間までに来ず、出発が10分遅れました。
(because one passenger didn't appear on time, departure delayed by 10 minutes.)
If someone says the same thing in colloquial Japanese, it'd become;
乗客の1人が出発の時間までに来なくて、出発が10分遅れたんだ。

奈津子さん、例を作ってくれて、ありがとうございます。分かりました。
エリック

natsukoy9313
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Posts: 176
Joined: May 11th, 2012 12:00 pm

Postby natsukoy9313 » September 11th, 2012 5:22 am

エリックさん、
どういたしまして :wink:

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

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