Conditional form vs たら form

[untmdsprt]

What is the difference? I'm currently using the "Handbook of Japanese Adjectives and Adverbs" book, and have come across the "if/then" forms of conjugating words.

When would you use the 〜ければ vs the 〜たら to make an if/then statement? The examples in the book are:

寒ければヒーターをつけてください。If it's cold, please turn on the heater.
寒かったら出かけません。If it's cold, I won't go out.

I do have the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar series of books, so if you can refer to a page/level of book I can look it up for further reading.

Thanks!

[iaai]

The ~たら form can mean both 'if' and 'when', it depends on the context. For example, in your sentence 寒かったら出かけません, it could mean both:

If it is cold, I won't go out.
OR
When it is cold, I don't go out.

Do you see how both sentences convey the same feeling?
An example of a 'when' statement:
駅に着いたら、お電話します。
When I arrive at the station, I will phone you.

If the word もし appears at the beginning of the sentence then it is definitely an 'if' statement rather than a 'when'.

The ~ば form on the other hand is a very plain, straightforward way of forming an 'if' statement. So your sentence goes like this: 'If it is cold, please turn on the heater.' It's fairly blunt, with not much uncertainty.

[untmdsprt]

So when would you use the ば form vs the たら form? What I'm wanting to know is when you would use one over the other to be grammatically correct? Are they interchangeable and it doesn't matter which one you use?

[iaai]

Well I'm not a Japanese expert, I'm probably at about the same level as you are, but from what I understand they are interchangeable when forming 'if' statements. Like I said, when using a ~たら statement you can add もし at the beginning if you don't want people to mistake it for a 'when' statement, or you can alternatively just use a ~ば statement as this is always an 'if' statement, never a 'when'.

[iaai]

Oh and just one final note to confuse you even more (j/k ) there is one more conditional structure which describes an action that occurs naturally after another.

You use the plain form of a verb + と like this:
左に曲がると、銀行が見えます。
When/if you turn left, you'll see a bank.
The first action of turning is conditional (i.e. it is the condition) while the second action of seeing the bank follows as a natural consequence.

So this form cannot appear in your first original sentence 'If it is cold, please turn on the heater' because the second action is a request, and it cannot appear in your second sentence either 'If it is cold, I will not go out' because the second action is your own decision, not a natural consequence, in which case the ~たら or ~ば form is grammatically correct.

[untmdsprt]

I think I will go ahead and search my grammar dictionaries because you haven't given a clear definition on anything.

Thank you though.

[iaai]

OK..

[Javizy]

This topic might be useful http://www.japanesepod101.com/forum/vie ... php?t=3458

[Jessi]

Lower Intermediate S5 Lesson #1-5 are all about the conditional tenses and the differences between them, so I'd highly recommend giving them a listen for more help with this

[untmdsprt]

Thanks Jessi, I'll check them out.

I did find an answer in my Basic Japanese Grammar dictionary on pages 81-83 for the different forms of 〜ば, and when the 〜たら form is correct while the 〜ば wouldn't be.