Beginer Anime

[slehner]

I'm just starting my studies so so far the only thing I know is the first time intorductions. Anime and travel are the reasons I started learning japanese so...

Anyhow I thought since I'm sort of an aniota, I hope thats the right word I looked up anime otaku in a translation dictionary.

Getting back to topic I was looking for sugestions on a good anime that might be good for a beginer to watch and read english subtitles. Normally I wait for the dubs on my favorits like bleach and so on. I thought this may be a good way to start to see the lang in use.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

[slehner]

I'm having second thoughts about using anime for training material after trying to watch Bleach in Japanese. In fact it even got me to question how they translated 死神 into "soul reaper". I hope I got that right, anyhow when I looked it up it translated into god of death not soul reaper.

[Jessi]

To be honest, I can't recommend anime as a learning tool to a complete beginner. If you enjoy watching it, then sure, going for subbed rather than dubbed so that you can hear the spoken Japanese is good, but the speaking styles used in anime are so varied (and often very far from everyday normal speech) that I think it would be hard to use it to learn. Wait until you have a couple years of Japanese under your belt and then give it a try (preferably without subs) - then you might be able to pick out things here and there and it might prove to be useful.

[untmdsprt]

I'm having second thoughts about using anime for training material after trying to watch Bleach in Japanese. In fact it even got me to question how they translated 死神 into "soul reaper". I hope I got that right, anyhow when I looked it up it translated into god of death not soul reaper.

Actually that makes sense to me. Think about it, the grim reaper (yet another name) comes and takes the souls of people who've died. If you think in terms of different gods for different things, then you'll understand the translation better.

So grim reaper, soul reaper, and god of death are all the same thing.

[Drabant]

In fact it even got me to question how they translated 死神 into "soul reaper".

Don't do the mistake of thinking that words in different languages are equal. When translating you are basically rewriting the same story with new words, so translations shouldn't be used for language learning. "Soul Reaper" was chosen simply because it sounds "cooler" than "deathgod".

[slehner]

In fact it even got me to question how they translated 死神 into "soul reaper".

Don't do the mistake of thinking that words in different languages are equal. When translating you are basically rewriting the same story with new words, so translations shouldn't be used for language learning. "Soul Reaper" was chosen simply because it sounds "cooler" than "deathgod".

I do relize that point but from watching Death Note the word shinigami is going to change my views a little bit when I watch Bleach in Japanese. Anyhow my ultimate decision at this point is to avoid watching any anime I know in its dub version and I won't use it for a learning tool.

[ggenglish]

i know very much where you are coming from slehner. my initial interest in the japanese language came from realizing that i didn't really need the subtitles for certain phrases that are used a million times in animes. like 'sou desu ka'. or 'daijoubu'. However, i think the most important lesson i learned was that subbing is kinda of an art. My first lesson was in the various forms of you. 'anata', 'omae', 'kimi', 'kisama'. If you didn't bother to look up these up learn about the politeness to rudeness levels you wouldn't really have a clue because a subber isn't going to sub it as 'you (polite)' or 'you (extremely rude)'. They are going to try to use what the english language has to offer.

As drabant said, don't make the mistake of trying to do direct translations. This applies to all languages. In english we say 'shut up'. You obviously wouldn't expect to be able to directly translate 'shut' and 'up' and have it hold similar meaning. In japanese you'll hear them say 'urusai', which according to my knowledge is an adjective meaning loud or annoying. In italian it's 'stai zitto' or directly translated, 'you stay silent'.

i painfully have to disagree with jessi-san (ごめんなさい!), but i think that exposure is the only way to learn a language. So i say take what you can get. However maybe what jessi-san was also pointing out was that it's important for a beginner to learn the concept of formal vs. informal speech and many other concepts of politeness of the language. If you use anime as your vocabulary bible you are going to learn a lot of rude phrases and terms i think.

good luck and sorry for my long post.

[slehner]

Well first off ggenglish-san there is no need to applogize for a long post, it was helpfull.

I do agree with your point about learning by exposure that was why my thoughts lead to watching anime in the original format but as you pointed out a good reason to be carful about doing that because of the different forms of japanese language meaning formal and informal.

I try my best not to consider any translation to be a direct translation but some translations are hard to understand why it was used. In my example it was shinigami and the depictions from one source to another was like saying an angel was the same as a deamon, in this case Death Note it was physically a deamon like creature and Bleach was a "Angel" by comparison and both were given the same title of shinigami.

So I kind of when from asking if any anime would be good for a beginer to help understand the language to a discusion on how one word or phrase could be defined as 2 very different things when depected in an image form.

In getting to my long winded finish I am glad to hear that someone agrees with my concept of learning by exposure. I have to make sure I am carful about what I learn and from where I learn it, ecpecially now that some words are starting to become familiar to me. I just need to be sure I understand it before I use it.

Kansha (I hope thats a polite thanks)

[mslozada]

Kansha (I hope thats a polite thanks)

Yes, it means '' thank you ''. But you never use this in saying '' Thank You ''.

Try to guess again

[slehner]

Ah should it have been "arigatou"? But my memory is a little off because I thought there should be another word with it like "arigatou gazamis" but if that is right it's not spelled correctly and I'm not positive on the translation.

I also wanted to note that I just checked out a random podcast from englishpod101, as far as exsposing ones self to a forien language hearing lessons going the other way gives an interesting perspective. As well as the side comenting is in Japanese so you don't hear as much English chatter not that there is anything wrong with that .

[Jessi]

You are right! Arigatou is a casual way to say "thanks", and adding gozaimasu makes it formal, so arigatou gozaimasu is "thank you very much".

[untmdsprt]

I'm going to have to say that getting exposed to all forms of a language is going to help you in the long run. Watching anime may not be the best way to learn a language, but it will certainly teach you one form of it.

Here's a thought: for those of you who are learning English, would you spend your time listening to Shakespeare's plays as your main form of language learning? How many times would you actually ask someone "wherefore art thou?" (http://www.enotes.com/romeo-text/act-ii-scene-ii#rom-2-2-35) How many people would even understand this at all? What kind of experience can you get from this?

I'd say the OP should continue watching their animes, but add a regular course to help them understand the difference.

[ggenglish]

lol untmdsprt. i love the shakespeare point. further to that i have a jp pen pal and in their first msg to me they used 'gonna'. which i found amusing because i realize that everyone says it and you hear it in songs and stuff but how many of us native english speakers use that in emails or with people we don't know that well. even though they hear this they need to expose themselves to courses and stuff so that they get educated that this is poor form. i was sure to point this out with them. hehe.

[QuackingShoe]

(I use gonna in text constantly)

I'm not sure comparing the work of a centuries-dead playwright to modern cartoons is really justifiable.

[slehner]

Umm their not cartoons.... Its called anime. A cartoon is a western kids thing anime tends to be more mature at least by western culture.

I think he does have a point however, perhaps shakespeare may not be a good comparison. That would however be similar to comparing the language in kabuki to the modern spoken language in nihon.

But for thoes learning english will be see the different words we technically by bad habit and try to use them without full understanding them. Examples often come from slang words like "gonna" for "going to" or "howdy" for " how do you do".

I expect to find many of these elements in the japanese language and hope I understand it befor I use it.

Side question in the phrase "domouarigatou" what does the "domou" add to the phrase. Yes I have been reading Kotoba! (Jim Breen's dictionary on an ipod app) again, and when you read through 17 matches for the english term "thank you" you wonder what is common what is polite and so on....

arigatougozaimasu