A different question about ~たい

[jdproulx]

Hi everybody,

I was wondering about "たい" a little bit.

If I wanted to say, for example, that I wanted to study, I would say 勉強したい.
If I wanted to say that somebody else wanetd to study, I would say ＿は勉強したがっています。

Likewise, I understand the negative versions of each. What I'm wondering is how to ask if somebody wants to do something. I know invitations would just be 勉強しませんか, but I'm curious about how to ask somebody if they want to do something without inviting them.

It's tough for me to explain, so I hope that didn't come out too convoluted. Can anybody help?

[hatch_jp]

Hi everybody,

I was wondering about "たい" a little bit.

If I wanted to say, for example, that I wanted to study, I would say 勉強したい.
If I wanted to say that somebody else wanetd to study, I would say ＿は勉強したがっています。

Likewise, I understand the negative versions of each. What I'm wondering is how to ask if somebody wants to do something. I know invitations would just be 勉強しませんか, but I'm curious about how to ask somebody if they want to do something without inviting them.

It's tough for me to explain, so I hope that didn't come out too convoluted. Can anybody help?

Do you want to study Japanese? ＝日本語を勉強したいですか。
Do you want to eat? ＝　食べたいですか。
Do you want to go? ＝　行きたいですか。
Do you want to play baseball? ＝ 野球をしたいですか。

To make the sentence just add "ですか。" after "～たい".


When you pronounce "たい" strongly in a sentence of "～たい", it would be a question in casual conversation. This is the same as English; when "go" is pronounced strongliy in the sentece of "You want to go?", it would be a question.

However there isn't "？" in traditional punctuation of Japanese, "？" is used in casual daily writing conversation such as chat, letter bewteen friends.
行きたい？ ＝　You want to go?
食べたい？＝　You want to eat?

[jdproulx]

Ah okay that all makes sense.

The way we were taught in class made it seem as if using "たいです" for somebody other than yourself (or someone in your in-group) was extremely rude. It must only be rude if you're saying "Xさん wants to do Y" when talking to a person other than X.

Thank you!

[jkeyz15]

I think that applies to when you are sayin somebody wants do something then you can attach ~garu. But you can use ~tai to ask if they want to do [verb]. There's an explanation of this somewhere on guidetojapanese.com I think.

[sashimidimsum7250]

On a somewhat related note.

On recent lesson Peter called たい an adjective stem. I found that quite interesting, as I had always thought that　たい　was just a conjugation and the verb remained a verb. I had never thought that it turned into an adjective. It's the first time I've ever heard this notion, and I'm not sure if other sources (books, etc) mention this.

[QuackingShoe]

They do. It's an auxiliary adjective, and conjugates as one.　ない is an adjective as well. I don't know if I'd say that it 'turns into an adjective,' but the Japanese distinction between adjectives and verbs isn't particularly strong anyway.

[Psy]

This is a good point to understand early on. In countless cases, adjective forms such as these are applied to objects in a way that could almost be considered passive, but are quite different in actual interpretation. This illustrates a fundamental difference between English and Japanese, as well as a source of much frustration for learners trying to equate something that isn't equal. For example:

ケーキが食べたい。

English speaking learners of Japanese will immediately take this to mean "I want to eat cake." This is a correct translation into English, however what's actually being said in Japanese is this:

"cake is wanted to be eaten."

食べたい takes the meaning of "wanted to be eaten," which is the property being attached to the cake. This does not mean "[subject] wants to eat" in the verbal sense. So how then, does the sentence "cake is wanted to be eaten." end up with the meaning of the English "I want to eat cake"? Because in Japanese, there is an unstated topic (marked by は when present in the sentence) which is always somehow related to what was spoken. For this same reason you cannot say だれは because だれ represents an unknown, and couldn't be related to anything else being said. Thus, assuming the topic is "I," the sentence "cake is wanted to be eaten" is related to "I" and thus means in English "I want to eat cake."

That's my understanding, at any rate.

[sashimidimsum7250]

I don't know if I'd say that it 'turns into an adjective,'

Well, maybe my wording wasn't the best.

None of the books I've used mentioned "adjective" in the slightest when it came to introduce the たい　or ない　forms, not even when it came to show なかった、たくなかった、etc. For me, the realization that they may be adjective-like is just a "oh neat" reaction, nothing more.

[Javizy]

Hi everybody,

I was wondering about "たい" a little bit.

If I wanted to say, for example, that I wanted to study, I would say 勉強したい.
If I wanted to say that somebody else wanetd to study, I would say ＿は勉強したがっています。

Likewise, I understand the negative versions of each. What I'm wondering is how to ask if somebody wants to do something. I know invitations would just be 勉強しませんか, but I'm curious about how to ask somebody if they want to do something without inviting them.

It's tough for me to explain, so I hope that didn't come out too convoluted. Can anybody help?

This prompted me to check my grammar dictionary, and as usual, there are a bunch of finer points that don't seem to get mentioned in most other places.

Since たい expresses a personal feeling, you can't directly use it about somebody else (that's where たがる comes in), but you can inquire about their feelings in a question. However, if you're asking if they want to do something with you, i.e. inviting them, たい is inappropriate, and the negative form of the verb should be used instead.

There are a number of other cases where たい can be used about the third person:

In the past tense:
彼女はとても行きたかった。
She really wanted to go

In indirect speech:
彼女はとても行きたいと言ってる。
She says she really wants to go.

In explanations:
彼女はとても行きたいんだよ。
She really wants to go (that's why).

With expressions of conjecture:
彼女はとても行きたいらしい。
It seems like she really wants to go.

This is explained in A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar, which, along with the other two volumes, I strongly recommend for these sorts of explanations. It also explains the rules for using を and が with this construction.