Could you? Would you?

[bob1777]

Hi all, here is something i havent' been too sure about.
How do you politely ask others to do things for you. For example:

てがみ　を　おくって　ほしい。
I want you to send a letter.

てがみ　を　おくって　ください。
Please send a letter.

Although polite, to me they still sounds like requests, it's still kind of "do it". They are valid and useful in some situations, but how to do make it more polite?
E.g. Could you send it please? Would you mind sending it please?

I' m not just after translation, but a feel for how to say that in different situation (to friends, teachers). Or maybe there is a different way to express that.

I think the level of politeness I'm after is somethign like in this sentence: てがみ を　おくっても　いいですか。 Although I believe that means reversed situation when you say: Is it ok if I (not you!) send this letter? Could I (not you) send this letter?
Can I say あなたは てがみ　を　おくっても　いいですか。 i think it's not right.
Anyway, thank you for comments

[Brody]

I must admit I myself am still somewhat fuzzy on this.

You can ask in the negative; that makes things more polite. Also I think it's more polite just to bring the idea up, so

今夜映画に行きませんか。
is "won't you go to a movie tonight (with me)?/ Shall we go to a movie tonight?" It is not an outright command, more like a suggestion.

There is also the whole くれる thing, but I won't go into that much here as I myself don't fully understand it. I know it translates as "give me the favor" so I think it's politer but I'm not positive and I don't know how common it is. Perhaps someone more familiar with it will come along.

[Bueller_007]

Hi all, here is something i havent' been too sure about.
How do you politely ask others to do things for you. For example:

てがみ　を　おくって　ほしい。
I want you to send a letter.

てがみ　を　おくって　ください。
Please send a letter.

Although polite, to me they still sounds like requests, it's still kind of "do it". They are valid and useful in some situations, but how to do make it more polite?
E.g. Could you send it please? Would you mind sending it please?

I' m not just after translation, but a feel for how to say that in different situation (to friends, teachers). Or maybe there is a different way to express that.

I think the level of politeness I'm after is somethign like in this sentence: てがみ を　おくっても　いいですか。 Although I believe that means reversed situation when you say: Is it ok if I (not you!) send this letter? Could I (not you) send this letter?
Can I say あなたは てがみ　を　おくっても　いいですか。 i think it's not right.
Anyway, thank you for comments

欲しい = "want"
手紙を送って欲しい。 is basically stating "I want [someone] to send a letter for me." It's an indirect statement of one's desires, but (I've heard) this sounds very, very direct. You wouldn't normally say it to the person in question. For example, at a restaurant, you shouldn't say フォークが欲しい. It'd be like saying "I WANT a fork." So you soften it. フォークが欲しいんですが. ("I'd like a fork, so [would you mind getting one for me?]) You could say フォークが欲しい to your friend in the restaurant, however, because you're merely stating what you want, not that you want him to do something.

欲しいんですが is a polite request, but I don't think you'd ever use it on someone who is higher in rank than you. You'd probably use いただきたいんですが in this case.

ください is a command, albeit a very polite one. It literally means "[honorably] handing down". It's used for people who are higher than you in rank. If you use it on people lower than you, you might sound weak, or it might sound condescending. Or you might end up sounding like a genuinely nice person... I'm not sure about this. At any rate, remember that it is an order. "Please do this." So unless you enjoy barking orders at your superiors, you have to be somewhat careful when you use it. If you want to ASK "could you please do this" to a superior, you use かださいませんか.

There are many, many other ways to ask such questions in Japanese. Off the top of my head:
くれ、くれる？、くれない？、くれないか、くれませんか、ください、くださいませんか、欲しいんですが、もらいたいんですが、いただきたいんですが、頂戴...

Personally, for friends, I generally use くれ for "please do this", and くれないか for "would you mind doing this?" And at cheap local bars/restaurants, I use 頂戴 (ちょうだい) for "please". At expensive restaurants, I use ください.

あなたは手紙を送ってもいいですか is strange, I would say.

[JockZon]

Remember that there is a lesson about this.

[bob1777]

I see. it's clear now, thank you all for comments.
I think くれ is what I was looking for. I'll read up on this.

[Bucko]

I'm no expert but from what I know I think it's to do with the inherent differences between what's polite in English and what's polite in Japanese.

Politeness in English basically requires the person to make an indirect statement or question. E.g. the literal meaning of "would you mind getting me a glass of water" is something along the lines of "if I ever happened to ask you for a glass of water would you get it, or would you not?", the listener then takes this indirect question and interprets it as a direct request. Likewise, "I was wondering if you could help me with this problem" literally translates to "I don't know about right now, but some time in the past I happened to be wondering whether or not you could help me with this problem" - the listener again assumes that it's a request for something now.

Japanese, on the other hand, has actual words which show that the requester is asking for something in a humble manner. E.g. "kore wo kudasai" literally translates to "hand down this thing to lowly, humble me". Or "kanojo wa shukudai o shite kureta" literally meaning "she did my homework for low, undeserving me".

I understand what you're saying though, because asking "pen o kashite kudasai" doesn't "feel" polite to us English speakers because it's not in English-style polite form. When you feel like this you just have to remember that the words you're using are, in fact, polite, because the words you're using have a deep meaning that implies humbleness - so no need to worry!

Hope this helps.

[Brody]

You use 頂戴, Bueller-san? I read that was used more by women. Guess I can cross that part out of the book...

[bob1777]

I think it's to do with the inherent differences between what's polite in English and what's polite in Japanese.

Yes, I thought about that too and I actually asked my JP friends some time ago about politeness in requests, but I was not understood . well, the reason could be that my JP skills and their EN were both not at high levels.

My initial confusion about KUDASAI was:
- Yes I can use it, I know it's polite, but when I talk to friends, books say i can drop it. If I do, it becomes "do it" request. Which is ok depending on situation , but sometimes you want to be polite to friends too and I don't hear them saying KUDASAI a lot when japanese friends talk to each other.

- There is also a difference between "polite request", for which KUDASAI is fine I guess, and "checking if it's ok for someone to do sth".

Suggestions from previous comments answered both of these questions for me. Thanks

[Bueller_007]

You use 頂戴, Bueller-san? I read that was used more by women. Guess I can cross that part out of the book...

No, no. I've actually heard that it's a woman's word as well.

But I've asked my local bartender (who taught me all kinds of really rotten Japanese words), and he said it's fine for guys to use it too.

I wouldn't use it for anything other than a bar situation though:
ビール一本頂戴。

I think it would sound girly if you used it with the -te form:
座って頂戴。

But this is all just my own semi-informed opinion.

[Jason]

I think it would sound girly if you used it with the -te form:
座って頂戴。

あ。ものすごく女っぽい感じ。。。

[Bueller_007]

You use 頂戴, Bueller-san? I read that was used more by women. Guess I can cross that part out of the book...

No, no. I've actually heard that it's a woman's word as well.

But I've asked my local bartender (who taught me all kinds of really rotten Japanese words), and he said it's fine for guys to use it too.

I wouldn't use it for anything other than a bar situation though:
ビール一本頂戴。

I think it would sound girly if you used it with the -te form:
座って頂戴。

But this is all just my own semi-informed opinion.

Actually, in retrospect, I think I used ビール一本もらえますか more than 頂戴 anyway.

[Sakura]

I think Bueller_007 san has explained most of it もらえますか and いただきたいんですが are very frequently used.

Here are some more to add
Would you mind giving me a call tonight? Would you mind sending me that file?
(casual: close friend; formal: close, but older than you; very formal: business client)
casual: 今夜、電話もらってもいい（かな）？　そのファイル、送ってもらってもいい（かな）？
formal: 今夜、電話いただいてもいいですか。　そのファイル、送っていただいてもいいですか。
very formal: 今夜、お電話 いただいてもよろしいですか。 そのファイルお送りいただいてもよろしいですか。

I would be happy if you would send me a letter. It would be helpful if you could send me the picture.
casual: 手紙をもらえるとうれしいな。　写真、送ってもらえるとありがたいな。
formal: 手紙をいただけるとうれしいです。　写真、送っていただけるとありがたいです（or 助かります）。
very formal: ご連絡いただけると幸いです。(<- This is only for business though. Very formal way of saying, please contact me, or, please let me know.) お写真、お送りいただけると助かります。

I'm not very good at explaining these, but I hope you can get some idea from the examples

By the way, use of 頂戴　is another interesting topic.
～してちょうだい (please do smth) sounds very very feminine (maybe only used by old women nowadays), but ～ちょうだい (give me somth(casual)) can be used both by men and women. Like, 後で電話ちょうだい(call me later)

[Jason]

さくらさん、来ていただいて、どもうありがとうございます。 ^_^

[Brody]

^^^ditto, Sakura-sensei!