Some fairly difficult questions

[jkeyz15]

To add to what kichigaijin said

In how I see it,
は is a particle of context/topic. Not explicitly contrast. Implying a weak Contrast is more of a "side-effect" of the primary usage.

では
can be either the particle,「で」 + the particle, 「は」
or
can be the 連用形　of だ、 「で」　＋ the particle, 「は」

[evizzle101]

hmm I guess my problem is I don't know how to distinct just "wa" from "de wa" and when to use vice versa...could somebody help me out?

also, I hear all the time "その感じ！”　in spoken Japanese and apparently it means "like that" yet, I never hear this in "lessons", all I've ever heard of prior to actually hearing it was just "mitai, you da, sou" etc, so how is "kanji" different from these! i also hear "いい感じ！”　so this throws me off even more... ahhhhh
Sometimes I feel like I'm hopeless. I'm going there in exactly 2 months to be an exchange student, so this is why I am asking so many questions. it is time to buckle down...

[jkeyz15]

は\wa\ is used like you always learned. It marks a topic/general context.
では\de wa\　simply combines the usages of は\wa\ and で\de\.
It has the same funtion as just including the で\de\, but you're also attaching the topic marker は\wa\ and the nuances that come with it.
[The では you see is most likely the で\de\ particle (at, reason, method, means, scope, etc) + は\wa\
Sometimes it is not the DE particle but DE, as in another form (連用形 -ren'youkei) of だ (sometimes referred to as the te-form of da]

As for その感じ being used in the usage you described, I don't recognize it, and it's possible you may have seen a loose translation of the situation you saw it used in. It is not identical to みたい, よう, nor the idiomatic そう. It is simply 感じ (feeling) being identified by the pronoun そ.

いい感じ is simply "good feeling/sensation"

Check out the links below:

ALC, "では" examples (6790点)


ALC is full of examples and translations. It is a great resource! Remember if you are searching other things, such as usage of verbs, remember to take of the last syllable or two so it includes All conjugations and not just the one you entered.
Like, say you wanted to look up usages of the ever so confusing, かかる, I would type
かか

[Jason]

感じ means "feeling, sense, impression." The みたい/そう/よう series is used to express observations about a specific thing. 感じ is used for a general impression of something or some action. Compare these:

A: このレストランはどう？ - "How about this restaurant?"
B: あ、おいしそうだね！ - "Yeah, it [the food] looks good!"

A: このレストランはどう？ - "How about this restaurant?"
B: あ、いい感じだね！ - "Yeah, it [the restaurant in general: food, atmosphere, etc] looks good!"
====

部下：社長、彼はどうですか。 - "Boss, how is he doing?"
社長：ん、ちょっと遅いようだな。 - "Hmm, he seems kind of slow."

部下：社長、彼はどうですか。- "Boss, how is he doing?"
社長：あ、そんな感じで続けてって伝えてくれ。 - "Yeah, tell him to keep up the good work [lit: tell him to continue in that way]"
====

A:　昨日、あの店へ行った。 - "I went to that store yesterday"
B:　どうだった？ - "How was it?"
A:　安くて、いい店だ。 - "It's a nice, cheap store"

A:　昨日、あの店へ行った。 - "I went to that store yesterday"
B:　どうだった？ - "How was it?"
A:　雰囲気は楽で、いい感じだった。 - "The atmosphere was relaxing, and it [my impression of the store] was nice"
====

As far as は vs では:

-これはダメだ。 - "This is no good"
-これでダメだ。 - "With this, it's no good"
-これではダメだ。- "With this [emphasis on " With this"], it's no good'

[Jason]

Since we're on the subject of "feeling" words, there are 3 main words that tend to get translated as "feeling" but have different nuances.

感じ = feeling as in sense or impression. It can also mean something like "general way of doing something" when talking about an action
気持ち = feeling as in a direct, physical sensation. It can also mean someone's feelings toward someone else.
気分 = feeling as in mood

[evizzle101]

thanks so much, these posts have been helping out a lot...sorry if I seem so clueless.. But one more question about "kanji" (not chinese writing), how is it different from "Donna fuu ni?"

Also, for tag questions, could someone explain the difference between "deshou/darou", "ne", and "janai ka?" I'm having some trouble with this.

Also, the difference between "sae" and "mo" for expressing "Even"

...(haha...yeah I'm confused) the difference between "ni" and "de" for location still confuses me (i.e., "koko de" vs. "koko ni")

something else i can't tell is the difference between 第２ and 二つ目

and out of curiousity, which "de wa" does "dewa nai" come from? The te form da or the other?? Just curious. And does anyone know how "ja" came out of it? The two don't sound too similar to me...

and I understand that だって　but can also mean something else...what it is, exactly, I can't tell... For example, a Japanese friend of mine was looking at a typical kogyaru magazine and saw a very tanned, blonde, California-looking Japanese girl in the pages and remarked 　”日本人だって！”

but when I asked her the meaning she found herself at a loss for words and couldn't explain...hmm...


Sorry for so many ?'s

[Jason]

thanks so much, these posts have been helping out a lot...sorry if I seem so clueless.. But one more question about "kanji" (not chinese writing), how is it different from "Donna fuu ni?"

Hmmm... This is a hard one to explain, so this might not make much sense. But they are different. 感じ is much less specific than 風. 感じ has a very..."ethereal" kind of nuance to it. When it's used with an action and translated as "that/this way', the emphasis is more on the general "mood" or "feeling" of the action rather than on the action itself. On the other hand, 風 is much more "down to earth" or "concrete." It means "manner, method, way", and when used to describe something the focus is on the actual "method" or "manner." Let's look at a more literal translation:

-こんな感じで続けて - "with this feeling, continue"
-こんな風に続けて - "in this way/manner, continue"

In the 2nd sentence, you're asking someone to continue doing something in the way that they're doing it right now and don't want them to change how they're doing it. In the 1st sentence, you're asking someone to continue doing something, but you're not asking them to keep doing it exactly in the way they're doing it now. Say you see someone doing a good job, and you don't care exactly how they do it, you just want them to keep doing a good job. That's the 1st sentence. It's focus is on the overall result of continuing. The 2nd sentence's focus is on the particular way they're doing it.

Did that make any sense at all?

Also, for tag questions, could someone explain the difference between "deshou/darou", "ne", and "janai ka?" I'm having some trouble with this.

Meaningwise, they're pretty much the same. The difference is how relatively forceful they are/how much they expect an agreeing answer. I'd rank them as:

だろう？/でしょう？ - pretty forceful depending on tone and context
じゃない？ - somewhere in the middle
な - a little more than ね but still less than じゃない
ね - least forceful

...(haha...yeah I'm confused) the difference between "ni" and "de" for location still confuses me (i.e., "koko de" vs. "koko ni")

With the exception of using it with ある/いる, に usually denotes motion towards something or an action being done towards someone or something. で simply marks the location that some action takes place.

-席に座る = に because the action, sitting, is made towards the seat
-池で泳ぐ = to swim in the lake
-池に泳ぐ = to swim to the lake
-ここでみんなに伝える = tell to everyone here (at this place)

something else i can't tell is the difference between 第２ and 二つ目

第 implies there's a series of things, like episodes of a TV show (第一話、第二話、第三話, etc). 〜目 just means the 〜th thing.

and out of curiousity, which "de wa" does "dewa nai" come from? The te form da or the other?? Just curious. And does anyone know how "ja" came out of it? The two don't sound too similar to me...

I don't know for sure, but my guess it's from the te-form of だ.

Keep saying では to yourself and each time say it faster. After a while, at some point you naturally stop pronouncing the two syllables seperately and begin to slur them together. It starts to morph into something like じゃ.

[Jason]

Also, the difference between "sae" and "mo" for expressing "Even"

I'm not that familiar with さえ myself. But も has a very inclusive nuance with it. "Even this [in addition to everything else]." さえ is a "minimum requirement" kind of word. There's more info here:

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/even.html

[jkeyz15]

the de in dewanai is from the ren'youkei of da.

te forms come from the renyoukei of the helper verb つ, and a contraction of this.


As for the datte, I'm not sure, I most likely think it is =　日本人だという（こと・の）.....I'm probably wrong.


As for
でしょう・だろう these forms are used to indicate suppision (sp?), probabilty, and volition. When you attach it to the end of a sentence, deshou/darou is pure guess, and is your supposion.

As for さえ and も in the sense of even, Jason pretty much hit the nail on the head. Sae has a "minimum requirement" meaning/feeling, while も has the inclusive feel, and in the sense of "even," it goes against one's expectations.
Here is definitions from Yahoo

さえ〔さへ〕
１ すでにあるものの上に、さらに付け加える意を表す。…までも。「風が吹き出しただけでなく、雨―降りだした」
２ ある事柄を強調的に例示し、それによって、他の場合は当然であると類推させる意を表す。…だって。…すら。「かな文字―読めない」
３ （仮定表現を伴い）その条件が満たされれば十分な結果が生じる意を表す。せめて…だけでも。「これ―あれば鬼に金棒だ」「覚悟ができて―いれば、心配はない」→すら →だに →まで


も

[evizzle101]

Hmm I think I am starting to understand everything more clearly now...but I might as well ask these questions while I'm at it:

What's the difference between tokoro and basho?


takumashii vs. tsuyoi?

touzen vs. mochiron

What I was asking earlier with the 'tag' questions', I couldn't figure out how to word it but I meant questions such is "isn't it____"/"don't you_____?, which of these is most similar in Japanese, is it either darou/deshou, or is it the janai sort of patterns? for example:

Isn't today Thursday?

Would it be:

Kyou wa mokuyoubi deshou?

Kyou wa mokuyoubi janai ka?

What is the difference between these 2 sentences, and which one has the 'confirmation' sense of the "don't you/isn't it?" in English? I'm sorry this probably makes no sense.

Also, with subjunctive sentences, is the if you use always 'nara' or does it depend? (i.e., 'could' or 'would' sentences.)

Also, how do you construct "WHAT IF"? sentences...thanks that is all for now.

[Jason]

Odd. I thought I'd replied to this. Oh, well.

What's the difference between tokoro and basho?

Not much. Though 所 has other meanings/uses other than "place, location" where 場所 doesn't.

takumashii vs. tsuyoi?

I'm not familiar with たくましい, but it seem to mean "strong" in the sense of physical sturdiness. 強い is a general word that can be applied to many other things, not just physical strength.

touzen vs. mochiron

当然 implies that what you're talking about is (or should be) true by nature or is common sense/common knowledge. もちろん doesn't have that implication. It's similar to the difference between "naturally" and "of course." As a result, 当然 can sound arrogant sometimes when used for something about yourself, depending on context and tone. 当然 is very similar to 当たり前.

What I was asking earlier with the 'tag' questions', I couldn't figure out how to word it but I meant questions such is "isn't it____"/"don't you_____?, which of these is most similar in Japanese, is it either darou/deshou, or is it the janai sort of patterns? for example:

Isn't today Thursday?

Would it be:

Kyou wa mokuyoubi deshou?

Kyou wa mokuyoubi janai ka?

What is the difference between these 2 sentences, and which one has the 'confirmation' sense of the "don't you/isn't it?" in English? I'm sorry this probably makes no sense.

They all have that "don't you?/isn't it?" meaning to them. The difference between them is how forceful or how expectant you are for the person to agree with you. They're much more nuanced than the English "don't you/isn't it?" kind of expresssions.

今日は木曜日じゃないか doesn't really work. じゃないか is too weak in it's "you agree with me, right?" factor for something like what day today is. Compare these:

-今日は木曜日でしょう？
-今日は木曜日だね。

The first sentence has a very strong implication that something did or did not happen and that was unexpected because it's Thursday. The 2nd sentence is just a straightforward statement. The ね acts as more of a softener than a full fledged tag question. Since you didn't give any context for your "Isn't it Thrusday?" I can't say which one is closer.

だろう/でしょう is often used when you're talking about something that should be 当然.

A: 前行ったケーキを食べて、すごくおいしかった。- "I ate some of that cake you were talking about before. It was delicious"
B: そうでしょう！そうでしょう！ - "Wasn't it?! Wasn't it?! [see, I told you! - eliciting very strong agreement]"

A: 前行ったケーキを食べて、すごくおいしかった。- "I ate some of that cake you were talking about before. It was delicious"
B: そうだね。 - "Yeah, isn't it? [simple statement]"
=====
A: お前は選ばれたようだな。- "It seems you were chosen"
B: ま、当たり前だろう。- "Well, obviously (because I'm so great)" [major arrogance going on in this one]
====
A: 今日もC君はいないなぁ。- "C isn't here again today, huh?"
B: 風邪を引いたんでしょう？ - "Didn't he catch a cold? [has an implication of certainty and that it's natural he's not here since he has a cold]"

A: 今日もC君はいないなぁ。- "C isn't here again today, huh?"
B: 風邪を引いたかもしれない。 - "Maybe he caught a cold" [purely guessing]

A: 今日もC君はいないなぁ。- "C isn't here again today, huh?"
B: 風邪を引いたんじゃなかったか？ - "Didn't he catch a cold? [has a implication of mild uncertainty]"

A: 今日もC君はいないなぁ。- "C isn't here again today, huh?"
B: 風邪を引いたんだね。 - "He caught a cold, didn't he? [simple statement with ね acting as a softener]"
====
Oddly enough, though でしょう is often very forceful when used as a tag question, it's used extensively in polite speech to make a sentence more polite. And if that wasn't enough, like jkeyz15 said, だろう/でしょう can also be used to express a simple supposition similar to かもしれない. Tone and context are vital to shades of meaning.

Also, with subjunctive sentences, is the if you use always 'nara' or does it depend? (i.e., 'could' or 'would' sentences.)

It depends.

Also, how do you construct "WHAT IF"? sentences...thanks that is all for now.

Example?

[Jason]

More on だろう/でしょう here:

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/certainty.html

[evizzle101]

sorry for polluting the forum with my dumb questions...but I always have them

I don't think I ever corrected my typo, I meant I read "tte" was a substitute for "to iu no wa", but often I hear "tte iu no wa" so this confuses me because I thought it was substituting all of that. also, if this is the case, what is the difference between "tte" and "tte iu no wa"...and while we're on the subject "douiu koto" and "douiu imi"'s difference? (Sorry for the terrible romaji my computer's being annoying)

Also, I gathered that when you are saying "That's why..." sentences you use "wake", but then I read this is for 'logical' kind of situations, so how would you say a sentence like "That's why I went", maybe something that is not obvious to the listener.

Also, I always have read that the te form shows a list of events, but sometimes I will hear the stem form, for example "Chizu wo nakushi, mayou keredo", but I thought this was supposed to be "Chizu wo nakushite, mayou keredo" so could somebody help me out?

Also, I just don't understand "ijou", what exactly does it mean? I'll use it in a sentence I heard, "Sore ijou wa nai"

That reminds me, how do you know when to use "wa nai" instead of "ga nai?"

and in English we sasy "I don't want to" sometimes to shorten the sentence, is this done in Japanese? Does "hoshikunai" as "I dont want to" sound strange?

I think that is enough for now

[Jason]

sorry for polluting the forum with my dumb questions...but I always have them

No dumb questions here. Some of them are actually pretty hard.

I don't think I ever corrected my typo, I meant I read "tte" was a substitute for "to iu no wa", but often I hear "tte iu no wa" so this confuses me because I thought it was substituting all of that. also, if this is the case, what is the difference between "tte" and "tte iu no wa"

Technically, the って is only short for と, but sometimes the entire rest of いうのは gets dropped, too. So って can be short for either と or というのは.

...and while we're on the subject "douiu koto" and "douiu imi"'s difference? (Sorry for the terrible romaji my computer's being annoying)

They're pretty much the same.

Also, I gathered that when you are saying "That's why..." sentences you use "wake", but then I read this is for 'logical' kind of situations, so how would you say a sentence like "That's why I went", maybe something that is not obvious to the listener.

わけ is used to draw a conclusion based on info that's come up in the course of the conversation, either from yourself or other people.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/reasoning.html#part2

Tae Kim's grammar site there is awesome, btw.

Also, I always have read that the te form shows a list of events, but sometimes I will hear the stem form, for example "Chizu wo nakushi, mayou keredo", but I thought this was supposed to be "Chizu wo nakushite, mayou keredo" so could somebody help me out?

It's a more formal version of connecting sentences, but it has the same meaning as connecting them with the て-form. It pops up mostly in writing.

Also, I just don't understand "ijou", what exactly does it mean? I'll use it in a sentence I heard, "Sore ijou wa nai"

以上 in this situation means "more than [what comes before 以上]." So that sentence means "There's no more than that."

That reminds me, how do you know when to use "wa nai" instead of "ga nai?"

ない/ありません usually takes は when the positive versions take が. Why? I don't really know.

and in English we sasy "I don't want to" sometimes to shorten the sentence, is this done in Japanese? Does "hoshikunai" as "I dont want to" sound strange?

No, you can't do this in Japanese. For one thing, 欲しい means "to want" in the sense of wanting things. You can't use it for wanting to do something. For that you have to use the 〜たい form of the verb. If you want to say that you don't want to do something, you have to use the negative 〜たい version of the verb.

-食べたい　ー＞　食べたくない
-買いたい　ー＞　買いたくない
-したい　ー＞　したくない

[jkeyz15]

a note on the ga nai, wa nai

Yes I do think it (ha) is used a little more with nai. Note that this is not explicitly because it's negative, but due to other reasons. As in some cases it is more correct to use the other. I hardly think about it when I speak, wa/ga is chosen more as a feeling, and I'm usually correct. So just after lot's of exposure it should come naturally.