a grammar query

[Spiderwick]

I am new to the forum, so please excuse me if I ask the same questions others have already posted. I am currently learning Japanese through a number of methods. However, (until I joined JPod) I have been using the 'Japanese Conversation' course by Helen Gilhooly. I have been enjoying this approach, but I do have a number of queries.

Could you help with some Japanese grammar?
(excuse the lack of accents on some letters - I haven't go them installed)


1. Kore / Kono / Sore / Sono

Kono okashi ikura desu ka?
These cakes, how much are they?

Kore o mittsu kudasai
I'll have three of these

Q. Is there an implied 'ones' in the second sentence - making it kore and not kono?


2. o

Kohii o mittsu kudasai
(Can I) have three coffees please?

Q. Is 'o' simply a particle marker connecting subject and adjective? Or does it have a specific translation?

Soshite shingo o migi ni magatte kudasai
Depato no mukaigawa desu

Q. Why not 'no' in the first or, vice versa, not 'o' in the second?

Q. Is 'ga' 'mo' wa' other example of particles? Are there many more and are they always used in the same way?


3. arimasu (please explain!)

ga arimasu ka (do you have)

iroiro arimasu yo (have all sorts)

hidarigawa ni arimasu (located on the left-hand side)

Q. What is the best way to interpret 'arimasu' (I though it was the verb 'have')? Or should I simply just know the phrases rather than try to break them down?


Any help would be much apprecited. I'm currently working through giving directions in Japanese and my head aches with the structure of the sentences!

Anne

[Bueller_007]

1. Kore / Kono / Sore / Sono

Ko-so-a-do words ending in "re" are nouns. Those ending in "no" and "na" are attributive adjectives. Ones ending in "u" or "a" are adverbs.

2. o

Usually no translation. It marks the direct object of a transitive verb or the location of a verb of motion (in the latter case, it might be translated as "through").

Soshite shingo o migi ni magatte kudasai
Depato no mukaigawa desu
Q. Why not 'no' in the first or, vice versa, not 'o' in the second?

Because in the first sentence, you turn right *through* the traffic light. The second is merely saying "opposite side *of* the department store". No verb here, merely attributing the side to the building.

Q. Is 'ga' 'mo' wa' other example of particles? Are there many more and are they always used in the same way?

I would guess that there are somewhere on the order of between 50 and 100 particles. Usage varies, but generally speaking, Japanese particles are postpositions, as opposed to English's prepositions. There are exceptions, as some particles act as conjunctions, adverbs, etc.

3. arimasu (please explain!)

To exist (of inanimate objects). [or] To have. It has two basic meanings.


Hope that helps.

[Spiderwick]

Wow! Can't thank you enough for this post! I've printed it off and placed it with my key notes. Thanks again - I was struggling with these queries for awhile!
Anne

[Spiderwick]

. Kore / Kono / Sore / Sono
Ko-so-a-do words ending in "re" are nouns. Those ending in "no" and "na" are attributive adjectives. Ones ending in "u" or "a" are adverbs.

I've been looking through your notes and I'm sorry to sound stupid but could you explain the above? My problem is in the audio course I am doing I am told:

Kore = this / these
Kono = This one / These ones

So, the sentences I posted were as follows:

Kono okashi ikura desu ka?
These cakes, how much are they?

Kore o mittsu kudasai
I'll have three of these

I understand the first example but I just don't get why it isn't 'kono' or why it is 'kore'. My thinking was if there is not a direct subject/topic (! as in okashi in the first) you have to 'imply' the word 'ones' is present.

Am I just digging myself a hole on this one? Does 'implied' really come into it? If I'm asked to volunteer the Japanese to a sentence, I just want to make sure I am thinking it through correctly before answering.

Sorry to be a pain

Anne

[Bueller_007]

Kore = this / these
Kono = This one / These ones

I'd listen again and make sure that's actually what they're saying. Because if it is, your course is 100% wrong.

Kore is a demonstrative pronoun. ("this [one]"/"these [ones]")

Kono is an demonstrative adjective. ("this"/"these")

The sentences you posted were fine.

[Spiderwick]

AH! It all makes complete sense now! My course failed to give me full details and what it gave me was not explained the way you have. Hence my complete melt down!

Thanks again

Anne

[Garyuchin]

I have here a list of just over a hundred particles, almost all of them.

[WCR91]

While we're on the subject, what is the function of 'node'?

[kichigaijin]

i think literally it means at/with that; but it serves as "because".

[Joey]

On the topic of node, how does its politeness compare to using kara?

[dmr214]

On the topic of node, how does its politeness compare to using kara?

Node is more polite and used in speech when giving presentations, directions to strangers, or even announcements on the train. However you rarely hear its use with friends and people on the same level.

I know there is a JPOD on node you should check it out.

[Joey]

On the topic of node, how does its politeness compare to using kara?

Node is more polite and used in speech when giving presentations, directions to strangers, or even announcements on the train. However you rarely hear its use with friends and people on the same level.

I know there is a JPOD on node you should check it out.

thanks. I had a hunch it was more polite, but thank you for backing up my thoughts.

[Bueller_007]

On the topic of node, how does its politeness compare to using kara?

Node is more polite and used in speech when giving presentations, directions to strangers, or even announcements on the train. However you rarely hear its use with friends and people on the same level.

I know there is a JPOD on node you should check it out.

Or, to put it another way, it's used in everyday speech all the time, except it's used as んで instead of ので. The difference between から and ので isn't politeness.

大辞林：〔理由・原因を表す接続助詞「から」との相違について。「ので」は因果関係が客観的事実に基づいているような場合に用いられるのに対し、「から」は、推量・禁止・命令・質問など、話し手の主観に基づくような場合に用いられる。一般に、「ので」は、「から」に比べて、条件としての独立性が弱い場合に用いられる〕

広辞苑：「から」と類似の意を表すが、主観的判断を根拠とする文脈には使わない。

In other words, ので is used for *objective* statements of cause and effect (i.e. those in which the speaker believes that the listener would agree with him on whatever facts he asserts), whereas から is used for *subjective* statements (including speculation, interdictions, commands, questions, etc.)

[Joey]

On the topic of node, how does its politeness compare to using kara?

Node is more polite and used in speech when giving presentations, directions to strangers, or even announcements on the train. However you rarely hear its use with friends and people on the same level.

I know there is a JPOD on node you should check it out.

Or, to put it another way, it's used in everyday speech all the time, except it's used as んで instead of ので. The difference between から and ので isn't politeness.

大辞林：〔理由・原因を表す接続助詞「から」との相違について。「ので」は因果関係が客観的事実に基づいているような場合に用いられるのに対し、「から」は、推量・禁止・命令・質問など、話し手の主観に基づくような場合に用いられる。一般に、「ので」は、「から」に比べて、条件としての独立性が弱い場合に用いられる〕

広辞苑：「から」と類似の意を表すが、主観的判断を根拠とする文脈には使わない。

In other words, ので is used for *objective* statements of cause and effect (i.e. those in which the speaker believes that the listener would agree with him on whatever facts he asserts), whereas から is used for *subjective* statements (including speculation, interdictions, commands, questions, etc.)

wow, thanks for that information. I didn't know there was so much depth behind the difference of node and kara. Thank you for the explanation!