is anata wa rude?

[Bucko]

Thats a different context though. Its adressing a group of people with whom he's not familiar. Wrong context and it'll seem condesending like my example or odd like the others. So whats the right noun for the context?

Huh? Isn't that what everyone was just explaining - that あなた is used for someone with whom you're not familiar? Other than that it's used between old couples to mean something like 'dear'.

[Elfunko]

Thats a different context though. Its adressing a group of people with whom he's not familiar. Wrong context and it'll seem condesending like my example or odd like the others. So whats the right noun for the context?

Huh? Isn't that what everyone was just explaining - that あなた is used for someone with whom you're not familiar? Other than that it's used between old couples to mean something like 'dear'.

Ya, and I gave one more usage on top of those too. ie. "condesending" At least I think it may be. I haven't asked anyone about this yet to know for sure, that's just what I was inferring from watching this tv show. But how would you know if those are the only usages?? I sure wouldn't....

[Joey]

Hi! Sorry this doesn't really have to do with あなた, but how rude is お前 compared to あなた？ Thanks in advance!

[Elfunko]

Omae is definately condesending. I would equate it to a "hey you!" or something. But in the right context it can work. With close friends, as a punchline for a joke, etc. Not to be used in a formal situation though, unless you are someone of much higher status and prestige than the person you are talking to. But even then, do you need to rub it in like that? Personally I wouldn't, but thats just me (and that opinion may change in time).

[Joey]

thanks Elfunkoさん!...I guess i should stop using it with my teacher (Me: お前元気？）....no just kidding but thanks for the explanation!!

[tiroth2]

There is an article and conversation in 中級の日本語 (An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese) that talks about why you shouldn't use あなた　to 目上のひと. That's one of the reasons this is a nice book...it is full of cultural lessons as well as vocab/grammar.

きみ is a familiar expression as well, and お前 is (as people have said) quite rude. (If you are on such close terms with someone that you can use direct style, though, きみ should be fine I would think.)

In general though, you should strive never to use these words. Unless you work in the service sector you probably rarely need them because you know the name or title of the person you are talking to, or you will know as soon as you introduce yourself.

For native speakers of English this is hard, because the natural expression is "What is your name?", etc. In Japanese though the more elliptical お名前は何でしょうか？ is preferable.

[Outkast]

Bottom line, using "you" in any format is rude if you're not really close with the person. People will jump through hoops just to find another way to indicate "you" without actually saying it. Use the person's title (teacher, professor, doctor, section chief, etc.) if you know it/if they have one, and just use their name (plus -san, whatever) if they don't. When the person is a complete stranger, I've even heard people find creative ways to say "person" in a respectful fashion as a substitute to "you" 「人さん」! Usually, a pseudo-relative term appropriate to age will be used, like uncle or older sister when dealing with strangers.

Of course, if you are actually trying to be confrontational, then use it by all means. 「てめ〜」 is the best one, but 「お前」 is less likely to start fights, but still rough.

[JockZon]

When talking to my e-pal on MSN, who is 23, 5 years older than me, I call her Miho-chan or anata. She call me Yoakimu-kun or kimi. We haven't talked that much but does that indicate that she consider me her friend? I figure this kind of language is quite rude or familiar isn't it?

I guess it's how the youth is talking though she calls me wakai and technically she is my senpai right? so she are allowed to call me kimi. Anyway, she hasn't told me not to speak causal with her.

[Belton]

The あなた thing always throws me.

I'm pretty scrupulous about not using it (or variants like きみ）
In the minefield of Japanese in regards status and politeness I feel the best rule is use masu-desu forms, san, and people's names or jobtitle.

What throws me then is Japanese people addressing me.

To be addressed as anata by someone who I'm friendly with but by no means close and still mutually use masu-desu forms with? Huh? what's that mean? It's not a youth thing that's for sure. Nor would I see it as a relative status thing of an elder addressing a junior. (I'm slightly older, she's happily married)

To be variously addressed as anata or Robert-san by a young woman. Huh? Is this a good thing? If I start using kimi in return would it be inappropriate?

Not to get past -san with another friend. Despite being the only gaijin of those she knows who gets any suffix. Is it merely distancing speech, and yet plain forms are used. again Huh?

With strangers or people like teachers etc. there's not so much language problems in this regard. The relationship is fairly cut and dried.

Where it starts to get harder in language terms I think is with acquaintances, or friends. It's harder to read situations in a different language and cultural background. If I continue to use too polite a form of speech does my language become distancing?
--of course I might just be being overly sensitive to the language.

[JockZon]

I asked my e-pal about why she calls me きみ and she told it had something to do with her being older and me being young and kawaii. I don't really know what she meant or the tone of it. She told me anata soundad too serious for the relationship her and I have.

[Outkast]

When talking to my e-pal on MSN, who is 23, 5 years older than me, I call her Miho-chan or anata. She call me Yoakimu-kun or kimi. We haven't talked that much but does that indicate that she consider me her friend? I figure this kind of language is quite rude or familiar isn't it?

I guess it's how the youth is talking though she calls me wakai and technically she is my senpai right? so she are allowed to call me kimi. Anyway, she hasn't told me not to speak causal with her.

My' e-pal's name is also Miho! Popular name...


The thing that makes all of this more confusing is that each individual Japanese person is going to have their own ways of following or not following the standard rules, AND many will typically alter the way they normally follow (or don't follow) those rules when interacting with non-native speakers.

It's really case-by-case, but if you are ever worried, stick to more polite and see how your counterpart reacts to it. No need to use keigo with a guy using street slang, but you should always find out for sure first.

[dmr214]

Anata is textbook Japanese.

I have never heard Japanese people use the word Anata in conversation with me or those they are familiar with. If someone doesn't know you at a store or something they will call you by the word "Kyakusama" 客様、　which translates to customer. If someone is calling you Anata-tachi, I would be a little taken back by that.

IMO, Just don't use it. That's the short of it. The language is set up so you don't have to so don't get hung up on it. If someone calls you by it just take it and move along.

Omae, kimi, they are all ways that comic books use to talk to people and I have no idea about pen pals over msn but it still feels unnatural. Unless you are angry like a cartoon character and want direct confrontation you will never use Omae.

At the end of the day using the persons name with -san is your best bet not to insult someone and save face.

[Garyuchin]

Just look at the literal meaning of omae. before one/in front, with the elevating status prefix "o," which clearly indicates "you" in direct address. It is very close to the English, "You up front." Not something that even can be politely said.

An unknown person's status might be apparent, in which case it is acceptable to use the appropriate word as a term of address. "seito" or "gakusei," "ogyakusan" as someone already mentioned, "oona" (owner), "shounen," "shoujou," and a quite a few others, including "ojisan."

It also seems that in-group can use variants on the "omae" form.... "omizuni" "You in the water" is one (the voice tone indicating fondness) that I have heard used in anime.