A child'sStory, mukashi banashi

[JohnCBriggs]

OK, now for the next sentence that tripped me up.
おおあわての　おにが　ねがいが　かなう　うちでの　こづちを　わすれていったのです。
Question 1: What is the の at the end of the sentence? Is this being used as a a nominalizer to make "ねがいが　かなう　うちでの　こづちを　わすれていった" into a noun? So
　　Ogre が forgotten thing の is.
Question 2: The past progressive: わすれていった. Why is this the right thing here rather than the simple past.
ジョン

[norgus]

My first post to this thread, interesting read guys. hehe

Ok John, The best I can understand this is by splitting it up into 3
おおあわての　おにが - the panicked ogre
ねがいが　かなう　うちでの　こづちを - the mallet from uchi(is uchi the ogre's house or the narators house or what?) that grants wishes (I have a question about this sentence*)
わすれていった - this isn't わすれていた (past progressive) this is 忘れて行った and so means forgot and went.

To put that mess into one translation:
The panicked ogre forgot the mallet (from uchi) which grants wishes and went (off somewhere?)

*my question is, why is the mallet referred to as ねがいが　かなう　うちでの　こづち
and not ねがいを　かなう　うちでの　こづち

I hope that helps.

[Bueller_007]

かなう is an intransitive verb.
かなえる is the transitive version.

That's why it's が, not を.

Personally, I would guess that 願いがかなう小槌 means "the hammer of one's dreams" or something.

This is why I don't read stuff like this... It's just nonsense.

[norgus]

Ah yeah, I forgot transitivity. Thanks for pointing that out Bueller-san.

I'm kind of uncomfortable with how that sentence sounds still, but its probably because I'm a learner and not a native speaker of Japanese.

Time to move onto Natsume Souseki?

[Bueller_007]

I'm kind of uncomfortable with how that sentence sounds still

Me too.

The 願いがかなう, incidentally, could also be referring to the house, (I think)...

"the hammer in the house of my dreams", perhaps.

No context given, so hard to interpret.

Souseki is not so bad.
Akutagawa is much more difficult.

[JohnCBriggs]

Buellerさん　and Norgus

[JohnCBriggs]

Buellerさん　and Norgusさん,
Thanks for all your help on this question.
I don't think that anyone responded the first question, but I think I have figured it out. The question was about the のです at the end of the sentence. I think to have this make sense, I should have provided the previous line and the context that the injured ogre ran away forgetting his magic mallet.
　　 「おや　こづちが　おちているわ。」
　　　おおあわての　おにが　ねがいがかなう　うちでの　こづちを　わすれていったのです。
I think the のです at the end is like the んです that appears a lot in Japanese. It is used in explanations. In this case explaining the fact that the mallet is there because the ogre forgot it and ran away. There is an explanation written in the link below that I thought was very good.
http://www.deedy.com/japanese/Japanese_no_da.htm

Regarding the わすれていった, thanks for pointing out that this is いく and not いる. So it is not the past progressive.

Regarding the magic mallet, after looking at the kanji I realize うち is not house but a form of hit 打つ here is the hiragana and kanji
　　　　うちでのこづち
　　　 打ち出の小槌
So 打ち出 seems to be a form of hit or strike or hammer 打ち出す. All together we can see the definition in Canon Wordtank as
a mallet, figuring in fables, that produces one's heart's desire at a wave;
a magic wand,
a cornucopia.

So looking at the sentence one more time.
　　　おおあわての　おにが　ねがいがかなう　うちでの　こづちを　わすれていったのです。
That is the magic mallet the hasty ogre forgot went he ran off. (I am explaining)

Thanks for the help, and let me know if you have anymore input.
じゃ　また
ジョン

[Bueller_007]

Argh, didn't think of "uchide no" that way, and I've never heard of that expression anyway.

Looks like you got it figured out.

[JohnCBriggs]

Let's try another sentence here with grammatical questions.
おひめさまが　こづちを　うつと　いっすんぼうしの　せが　たかくなり　りっぽな　わかものに　なりました。
The princess hit Issunboushi with the mallet and he became a tall, splendid young man.
Here are the questions
1) Is the と after うつ the so-called と-conditional; After A happens then B happens?
2) What is the connection type used with なり　as in
せがたかくなり
　　I assume this means "became tall" but what is the form of connection used here? Is this the ます stem of なります?
Thanks
John C. Briggs

[annie]

1) Is the と after うつ the so-called と-conditional; After A happens then B happens?
2) What is the connection type used with なり　as in
せがたかくなり
　　I assume this means "became tall" but what is the form of connection used here? Is this the ます stem of なります?
Thanks
John C. Briggs

1. Yes, that's what it looks like to me.
2. なり　is the stem of なります　and as you probably know, the stem can be used to connect sentences in the same way as て form.

高い becomes　高く. Or with な　adjectives, add に as in　静かになりました. Sorry, the grammar theory behind it is alluding me at 9am.

[JohnCBriggs]

Annieさん,
Thank you for your help.
ジョン

[JohnCBriggs]

Perhaps someone can help with this sentence
「ひめを　よめに　もらっておくれ。」
I am confused about a number of things including the interpretation of もらっておくれ. This is a receiving verb with a plain imperative form of a giving verb. Also, who is saying this sentence. What is the (implied) subject of the sentence. Here is some context.
おひめさまが　こづちを　うつと　いっすんぼうしの　せが　たかくなり　りっぽな　わかものに　なりました。
この　はなしを　きいて　だいじんは　おおよろこび。
「ひめを　よめに　もらっておくれ。」
Thanks
John

[Bueller_007]

Perhaps someone can help with this sentence
「ひめを　よめに　もらっておくれ。」
I am confused about a number of things including the interpretation of もらっておくれ. This is a receiving verb with a plain imperative form of a giving verb. Also, who is saying this sentence. What is the (implied) subject of the sentence. Here is some context.
おひめさまが　こづちを　うつと　いっすんぼうしの　せが　たかくなり　りっぽな　わかものに　なりました。
この　はなしを　きいて　だいじんは　おおよろこび。
「ひめを　よめに　もらっておくれ。」
Thanks
John

I believe the 大臣 is speaking this sentence. If the 一寸法師 were speaking, he'd probably be using "姫さま", etc.

~~を嫁にもらう = "to take ~~ as one's bride"
送る = "to go with"

"Take the princess as your bride, and off with the both of you."

That's my guess. But I reserve the right to be incorrect. There appears to be a conflict between もらう being used to describe receiving by someone else (whereas it's normally used to describe one's own receiving), but maybe 嫁にもらう is idiomatic enough to be used about anyone.

[Psy]

Perhaps someone can help with this sentence
「ひめを　よめに　もらっておくれ。」
Thanks
John

I believe the 大臣 is speaking this sentence. If the 一寸法師 were speaking, he'd probably be using "姫さま", etc.

~~を嫁にもらう = "to take ~~ as one's bride"
送る = "to go with"

"Take the princess as your bride, and off with the both of you."

That's my guess. But I reserve the right to be incorrect. There appears to be a conflict between もらう being used to describe receiving by someone else (whereas it's normally used to describe one's own receiving), but maybe 嫁にもらう is idiomatic enough to be used about anyone.

Lucky for me I've encountered this form before. おくれ doesn't come from 送る but rather an alternate form of ~てくれ[る]. The 大臣 is making a command to an inferior to "humbly recieve" the princess as his bride.

[Bueller_007]

I thought くれる was only used after -te forms (when representing giving by the speaker) when doing something disadvantageous for someone else.

大辞林 says:
(3)（補助動詞）
動詞の連用形に助詞「て（で）」が付いた形に付いて、その動作者が話し手または話題の人物のために何らかの動作をすることを表す。
(ア)他者が話し手または話題の人物に、その利益となることをする意を表す。
「おおい、助けて—・れ」「部長が僕らを食事に呼んで—・れた」「これを見て—・れ、大したもんだろう」「ちょっと来て—・れないか」「傘を貸して—・れませんか」
(イ)他者が話し手または話題の人物の不利益となることをする意を表す。
「とんでもないことをして—・れたもんだ」「恨んで—・れるなよ」
(ウ)話し手が他人に対して、その者の不利益となることをする意を表す。…てやる。
「にっくき親のかたき、どうして—・れようか」

From 大辞泉:
３ （補助動詞）動詞の連用形に接続助詞「て」を添えた形に付く。
(I) 人が自分に、または自分の側の者に対して何かをすることを表す。「手伝って―・れる」「秘密にしておいて―・れ」「母がセーターを編んで―・れる」
(II) こちらが、相手に不利益になるようなことを与えることを表す。「痛い目にあわせて―・れるぞ」

If おくれ = お呉れ, I think that it has to be the 一寸法師 speaking, which doesn't seem unlikely.

Otherwise, it's perhaps possible that the 大臣 is speaking, and お呉れ applies to the 姫を rather than the 嫁にもらって.

It'd help if we knew what the next line was.