A child'sStory, mukashi banashi

[JohnCBriggs]

I have purchased a number of children’s books and I am trying to learn to read them. Perhaps someone can help me in the areas where dictionaries fall short. Here is the sentence I am working with.

むかし　むかし　こどもが　いない　おじいさんと　おばあさんが　かみさまに　おねがいを　すると　こゆびくらいの　おとこのこが　うまれました。

I have three questions
1) おねがいをする, this seems to me to mean, “make a request.” Perhaps in this context it means “to pray”. Does that seem right?
2) Right after the おねがいをする there is a “と”. What is the proper meaning of the “と”.　Seems like it could mean “and” as in
“they prayed and a boy was born”
or perhaps it means “when” as in
“when they prayed, a boy was born”.
3) What is the right interpretation of “の” in “こゆびくらいのおとこのこ”. I guess it is literally “little finger’s boy”, but what is the interpretation? Is it “a boy like a little finger.”?

Thanks
ジョン

[annie]

I think you're pretty spot on with the translation.

1) In this instance I'd probably go with prayed, but essentially pray and request mean the same thing

2) と... I'd translate it as "shortly thereafter" (which sounds a bit funny to me now that I'm looking at it again... I've forgotten English)

3) こゆびくらい= the size of one's little finger. it functions as an adjective, thus the の. a boy the size of one's little finger.

Good Luck with the story. I find kid's books to be really hard because of the lack of kanji.

[JohnCBriggs]

Annieさん,
Thanks for the help here.
I find children's books hard for a lot of reasons. First, as you said, no kanji makes it a little harder to find the right word. Second, a lot of the vocabulary is unfamiliar. I have not studied Princesses and Ogres in JFBP, JLPT, or Genki. Third, there is a lot of "cuteness" added into the story. This might be non-standard extended vowels or onomatopoeia or colloquial expressions that can be next to impossible to look up.
But looking over my previous translations, I realize that my big weakness is grammar. I tend to skip over particles and "assume" that I know what they mean. Often, I misunderstand the sentence as a result.
おせわになります
ジョン

[JohnCBriggs]

I have a question about the use of てくる. In the following sentence, what is the meaning of the てくる form.

「じいさま　ばあさま　おいら　みやこを　みてきたい。」

Is it simply
"grandpa, grandma, I want to go and see the capitol" (implied returning afterward).
or some other meaning like bringing about the state of seeing the capitol.
Thanks
John C. Briggs

[Bueller_007]

I have a question about the use of てくる. In the following sentence, what is the meaning of the てくる form.

「じいさま　ばあさま　おいら　みやこを　みてきたい。」

Is it simply
"grandpa, grandma, I want to go and see the capitol" (implied returning afterward).
or some other meaning like bringing about the state of seeing the capitol.
Thanks
John C. Briggs

In this case, I believe it means "Grandpa, Grandma, I want us to see the capitol (and come back)", as you suggested. The alternative is just too weird.

[JohnCBriggs]

Buellerさん,
ありがとうございます。
ジョン

[JohnCBriggs]

Perhaps someone can help with this.

いっすんぼうしは　はりを　かたなにして　こしに　さし　おわんに　のって　かわを　のぼっていきました。

My question is about にして. we have
　　　　　　　　　 はりを　かたなにして
So there is
はり　needle
を object marker
　　かたな　　sword
に　　　　????
して　　　　

[JohnCBriggs]

Sorry, accidently hit enter.

The question here is what is the meaning of にして
Thanks
ジョン

[Psy]

It's kind of hard to translate this one directly, but the overall meaning is the dwarf used the needle as it were a sword. The most direct translation is do needle to sword, then maybe make needle sword, and perhaps in natural English made the needle like his sword.

The weird thing is that while I looked for this story online and found similar lines, I wasn't able to find that exact phrase...

[JohnCBriggs]

Psyさん,
Thank you very much for translation. I really like the more literal translations because I think it helps me understand the Japanese better.
This particular version of いっすんぼうし is not from on-line, but from a book that I own. It is actually a "board-book" designed for really small children that might chew on them. So I feel a little funny reading them. This is a set of 30 むかし　ばなし books.
Sadly, I have found the books much more challenging than I would have ever believed. The vocabulary is different than I find in my textbooks (e.g. princesses and ogres). However, more than that, I find it hard to understand the grammar. This is particularly true when "turns-of-phase" or passives are used.
So now I am trying to go through this one book slowly and make sure I understand every little point.
ありがとう
ジョン

[Psy]

You shouldn't feel silly-- it requires a certain amount of knowhow to be able to understand those stories, especially considering the nonstandard vocabulary and lack of kanji. Remember, kids don't think in terms of verb conjugations and tense, they just hear a story and know what it means. You don't have that luxury, so you have to keep in mind all the rules you've learned and practice them until they become second nature-- this is not, especially at first, easy to do. Take it easy and enjoy it as you make more connections. Kid's stories are great practice and provide a certain insight into the culture.

I found a site that has mukashi-banashi (昔話) from many different languages, including Japanese. The Japanese ones even have audio recordings!

http://www.logoslibrary.eu/pls/wordtc/new_wordtheque.wcom_literature_baby.print_doc1?lang=ja&letter=A&source=&num_row=20

Of course if you get stuck somewhere, don't hesitate to post here!


頑張ってくださいね。

[JohnCBriggs]

Perhaps someone could help with this one.
おまいりが　ぶじに　すんで　かえろうとしたときです。
I guess this is something like
The shrine visit was peacefully to end and it was time to return home.

but the details are not clear to me. For example, what is the meaning of the construction
かえろうとした
looks like volitional + とした
Thanks
ジョン

[Psy]

To me, the only construction that makes sense here is the 「V+おう＋とする」form, so「帰ろうとする」"to try returning [home]." I could always be wrong, but the other とする-related stuff just doesn't work.

At any rate, I think you're getting the meaning. What story is this from?

[JohnCBriggs]

Psyさん,
Thanks for your input. I don't know if "try" is the right thing here. I saw suggestions that this means "made up your mind to do..."
The story is いっすんぼうし or the Inch-High samurai.
Thanks
ジョン

[Psy]

"Made up your mind to do" would be 「clause+ことにする」. Without the volition it's just 「clause+ことになる」I've read this story but don't remember that exact line. It must be when the to-be-parents are praying for a child. I still think I'm right, but if you could provide another line or two of that area of the story, I'm sure the additional context will be helpful.