omoshiroi...

[seanolan]

I understand that this word can mean both "interesting" and "funny." But what kills me is that in English, these two concepts do not intersect...if I call a commedian "interesting, s/he is not likely to appreciate the description, or if I tell a lecturer that his topic was "funny", s/he is probably going to be mildly insulted. What I want to know is, in Japanese language/mindset, are these two concepts actually the same? Or is it a case similar to English "fine", where it can mean both good and small, two separate concepts? Or is it somewhere along the line a mistranslation of the concept of "omoshiroi"?

Any insights would be appreciated; ones with facts backing them more so...

Sean

[Bueller_007]

I understand that this word can mean both "interesting" and "funny." But what kills me is that in English, these two concepts do not intersect...if I call a commedian "interesting, s/he is not likely to appreciate the description, or if I tell a lecturer that his topic was "funny", s/he is probably going to be mildly insulted. What I want to know is, in Japanese language/mindset, are these two concepts actually the same? Or is it a case similar to English "fine", where it can mean both good and small, two separate concepts? Or is it somewhere along the line a mistranslation of the concept of "omoshiroi"?

Any insights would be appreciated; ones with facts backing them more so...

Sean

You have to be careful. After watching Schindler's List, you wouldn't say "omoshirokatta", because that would imply that you were amused. On the other hand, I think it's perfectly acceptable to tell a lecturer that you thought that their lecture was "omoshiroi", so long as it wasn't dealing with topics like murder, genocide, etc. Kind of the same as saying "I enjoyed your lecture." (Would you say "I enjoyed your lecture" if they speaker were talking about Darfur?)

The concept of "interesting" and "amusing" are not the same, and you can see that in Japanese dictionaries, they are listed as different senses accordingly.
http://tinyurl.com/yfmnv4

You have to remember that our mind defines our language, not the other way around. Just because there are no plurals in some languages doesn't mean that people don't understand the concept of numbers. And just because the Japanese use the same word for two different concepts doesn't mean that they don't understand the difference between them. (My facts backing this claim up come from a bunch of Steven Pinker books.)

So "omoshiroi" has many different senses, and Japanese people understand the difference between them, but you have to be careful, because they may leak together. Think of "omoshiroi" as meaning "interesting [because it is strange/novel/amusing]".

I think "kyoumibukai" (興味深い) is a better word to use for a situation like Schindler's List.

[lulu_chan]

i have a wee bit of a disagreement here. I feel that you can say you enjoyed a lecture regardless of the topic. YOu are learning something, therefore it would make it enjoyable. I often find it is a compliment to the prfessor. THey would love to hear that students enjoyed their lectures.

I think that is what is a LITTLE more difficult about japanese. There can be different meanings for a certain word. i think, for me, a better comparison is slang. If a japanese person were to hear that the person is "phat", they may think they are literrally fat, but it's a different context. Or, the like. As you said, it's all in context. ANd, i think that's where listening to Peter and the gang helps. THey help us understand the context. ^____^

[Bueller_007]

i have a wee bit of a disagreement here. I feel that you can say you enjoyed a lecture regardless of the topic. YOu are learning something, therefore it would make it enjoyable. I often find it is a compliment to the prfessor. THey would love to hear that students enjoyed their lectures.

I would never say "I enjoyed your lecture about the deaths of 400,000 people." But maybe that's just me. Not only does it come across as uncaring towards the victims, I doubt that a professor would want to hear that people "enjoyed" their lectures when they were presenting a tragic situation such as this. Perhaps "moved" would be a better choice of words.

Which actually makes me think. You would probably say that Schindler's List was "moving" (感動的, kandouteki) rather than "interesting" (興味深い, "kyoumibukai"). But either would be a better choice than 面白い.

[lulu_chan]

Hmm..I see. ^^ Goes back to context. knowing when to use it. I know my japanese friends say things out of context, and I know I have done the same in japanese...it's all part of the learning process. ^^

[tiroth2]

You have to understand the concept of a "word sense" which is a particular usage pattern that a word can have. So, for example, 面白い might be said to have a sense of "interesting" and a sense of "funny".

Now, look at funny on the English side. Funny can have a sense of "amusing" and also a sense of "strange/peculiar". Only the first sense maps to 面白い.

What this mini example illustrates is that even when a gloss exists, it usually only exists for some sense of the source word to some sense of the target word.