Some questions.

[Bueller_007]

I'm quite familiar with -te hoshii, and I have to disagree with your last post.

You can't know what someone is thinking, or what they want. Therefore, you have to use hoshigaru. That's the standard.

Your example equating hoshii with moraitai fails. Moraitai should also not be used for third person desires. Moraitagaru is used.


You can find violations of just about *every* grammatical rule in every language once you start getting informal (even some fundamental ones like use of the copula.)

He did it. -> He done did it.
Are you hungry? -> You hungry?
Does he want to go? -> He wanna go?

Had you mentioned in the original post that it was anime slang, I wouldn't have corrected you; I don't watch enough anime (or any at all) to be acquainted with these things.

At any rate, native speakers can *sometimes* get away with this without sounding uneducated. But foreign speakers usually don't have this luxury. If you speak incorrectly, most people will naturally assume it is because you have learned the language incorrectly. Therefore, you should stick with using the -garu form.

[Tensei]

Ok, but I still fail to see how te hoshii is just plain wrong rather than not recommended. Also, I said I read about it too, i didnt just hear it in anime.

[tiroth2]

タカトは僕にもっとt強くなってほっしいんだよね。。。”

For the sake of argument, might this be a colloquialism for a quotative structure:

タカトは僕にもっと強くなってほっしいといってました

[Tensei]

I dont think so. Takato, whom the speaker was talking about, didnt say anything like that. The speaker just kind of figured it out. Oh, and theres examples of te + hoshii on wwwjdic. I really dont think they would provide examples of something thats grammatically incorrect. Not hoshigaru. Hoshii.

Some of the examples include te + hoshii +desu, which is what the guy said in the show.

[Jason]

Here's what Yookoso says:

Construcion
(Aは)(Bに)て-form + ほしい／もらいたい／いただきたい

Examples
-林さんに話してほしいんですか。[their translation: "Do you want me to talk wiht Mr. Hayashi?"]
-ちょっとテレビをつけてほしいんだけと。。。
-郵便局へ行ってきてもらいたいんですが。
-私たちは先生に参加していただきたいんですが。

It also says (underline mine):

When A is the third person, the te-form of the verb + もらいたがっている or いただきたがっちる is usually used. Alternatively, you may be able to use もらいたいそうだ or いただきどうだ.

So according to Yookoso, the 〜がる thing doesn't seem to be absolutely mandatory.

[Bueller_007]

From the "Dictionary of Japanese Grammar", AKA "The Bible". The points they raise, using my words:

"hoshii" is normally used only for first-person or second-person desires, as one is not normally able to speak about the inner workings of another person's mind. Therefore, for third-person cases, "hoshigatte iru" is normally used. Same goes for "-te hoshii", except that "-te moraitagatte iru", rather than "-te hoshigatte iru" is the standard third-person form.


Exceptions include the following. (This is likely the reason that they say "usually" in Yokoso.):

1. The speaker (or the listener in the case of an interrogative) are in a close enough position to the third person that they can take his/her viewpoint and truly speak for his or her desires.

2. In expressions such as "sou da", "you da" and "rashii" which cause a double "seems to" effect, when combined with "garu":
"Kare wa ~~ wo hoshigatte iru you desu."
"He seems to seem to want something."

3. In direct quotes, where the "seems to" is misplaced:
"Maaku wa ~~ wo hoshigatte iru tte."
"Mark said 'I seem to want ~~.'"

4. In expressions of explanation. That means using the "n", "kara", "node", etc.

5. "-garu" is unnecessary when using past tense.


The first three exceptions I already knew about because they are obvious. I had never heard of the 4th one until I looked it up last night. That explains the use of the plain hoshii form provided in Tensei's Takuto example.

--Edit--

Added a 5th exception.

[tiroth2]

面白いですねえ。ありがとうございますBuellerーさん。

[Jason]

"hoshii" is normally used only for first-person or second person desires,

Ah. This would explain the ほしい in the first Yookoso example.

[Tensei]

Oh...I didnt mention this but the Takato sentence isnt third person. The speaker was talking to Takato. He just used his name instead of you.

[Jason]

Oh...I didnt mention this but the Takato sentence isnt third person. The speaker was talking to Takato. He just used his name instead of you.

Well, that makes things even simpler then.

[Bueller_007]

Yeah, my whole thing was about third-person. So if it's second person, then there's no doubt that "hoshii" by itself is acceptable. Your original post read something like "Bob wa watashi ni *something* -te hoshii", which is why I corrected it; I assumed Bob was third person. If he's second person (which'd be pretty odd, considering it's not a question) then it's perfectly fine.

The only point of consideration is that in Japanese, you normally don't ask people about the inner workings of their mind.

For example, if you're at a bar with your friend, and you want to buy him a drink, rather than asking, "nani [ga] nomitai desu ka" (asking about their desires), it's supposedly better to ask "nani [wo] nomimasu ka" (asking about their external actions).

So normally, you wouldn't ask someone what they themself "hoshii", unless you have an intimate relationship, or there's no other way of expressing the question in that situation.

Or such is my understanding.

[Bueller_007]

Just to make sure about this hoshii thing, I asked my Japanese co-workers.

They said that in the case of third-person desires, this form is probably the most natural:

"Bobu wa watashi ni kite hoshii to omotte imasu."

Again, the "-garu" is unnecessary because it is a direct quote, albeit a quote from inside Bob's brain.

[Tensei]

When youre talking about getting a new floor is it acceptable to use もらいます？ Or do you have to use something else?

[Bueller_007]

When youre talking about getting a new floor is it acceptable to use もらいます？ Or do you have to use something else?

IMO, chances are you wouldn't just say "moraimasu", because that might imply that someone is just gonna drop the floor off at your house and drive away.

You might say something like "shiite moraimasu", where "shiite" is the -te form of "shiku" which means "to lay/spread out".

But it's a pretty specific question, about a situation that no one on this forum has ever dealt with before, so I can't say that with any certainty.