stupid grammar questions

[rdesiree]

Hi everybody
Maybe this has already been discussed somewhere, but I couldn't find it using the search... if so, please point me to the topic.
I'm checking the grammar questions of the JLPT4 from 2004

1) きょうは　あまり　忙しくありません。I would translate as: I will not be very busy today. However, I don't understand the くin いそがしい - I would have said ...忙しいありません。:roll:
2) さいふは　どこにも　ありませんでした。My wallet was nowhere anymore (??) meaning I've lost it - is that correct? I've some perplexity with the どこにも。I translated the も as "anymore", but I'm rather clueless - is that right?

Edit: Found another one: きのうは　だれも　来ませんでした．Looks as if the "も" here is used in the same way: Nobody came yesterday. (?) Is there some general rule about negatives and も, that I should know?

Thanks for your help

[Belton]

1. 忙しく is the adverbial form of いそがしい
(adjectives modify nouns, abverbs modify verbs)
to make the adverbial form of an い adjective change the い to く
for な adjectives the な becomes に

2. さいふは　どこにも　ありませんでした。the wallet wasn't anywhere / the wallet was nowhere.
（落とす - - > おとします　would be the word I'd use for lose or to drop by the way )

The construction is question word plus mo plus negative form to get nobody, nowhere, nothing etc. Usually expressed as nothing plus postive form in English.

dokonimo ikimasen deshita. I didn't go anywhere.

daremo shiranai. Nobody knows.


I'm sure this stuff might be around here somewhere but I couldn't find it either.

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edited for spelling.

[rdesiree]

ありがとうございます!!

[Jason]

1) きょうは　あまり　忙しくありません。I would translate as: I will not be very busy today. However, I don't understand the くin いそがしい - I would have said ...忙しいありません。:roll:

This is how you form the negative of i-adjectives. Change the final い to く and add ありません.

2) さいふは　どこにも　ありませんでした。My wallet was nowhere anymore (??) meaning I've lost it - is that correct? I've some perplexity with the どこにも。I translated the も as "anymore", but I'm rather clueless - is that right?

No. You're thinking of もう which can mean "anymore." Let's break this one down a bit:

どこも means "nowhere" in a negative sentence. But if we want to say "the wallet was nowhere", we also need the particle に in there somewhere to mark the location. The correct place to put it is in between どこ and も, so we get どこにも. So the sentence means "The wallet was nowhere", or in better English "The wallet was nowhere to be found."

Edit: Found another one: きのうは　だれも　来ませんでした．Looks as if the "も" here is used in the same way: Nobody came yesterday. (?) Is there some general rule about negatives and も, that I should know?

The interogative pronouns (the ones that ask who, what, when, where), can take a number of particles at the end to change their meaning: か、も、and でも. Most of the も ending ones change their meaning depending on whether the sentence is affirmative or negative.

誰 = who
何 = what
いつ = when
どこ = where

誰か = someone
何か = something
いつか = sometime
どこか = somewhere

誰も = in affirmative sentences: everyone. In negative sentences: noone
何も = aff: everything. neg: nothing
いつも = all the time. [You don't use いつも in negative sentences]
どこも = aff: everywhere. neg: nowhere

誰でも = anyone
何でも = anything
いつでも = any time
どこでも = anywhere

[Belton]

This is how you form the negative of i-adjectives. Change the final い to く and add ありません.

huh?

don't i-adjectives usually decline as follows ?

〜い です
〜くない です
〜かった です
〜くなかった です

remove です for plain form.

now I realise ありません　is the masu form of ない　but I've never come across it as a way of forming the negative of adjectives before.

or have I missed something as usual?

[Jason]

The polite negative form of adjectives can be formed 2 ways. The ありません forms are slightly less "strong" in their negativity.

i-adj - drop い and add
〜くないです or くありません
〜くなかったです or くありませんでした

na-adj
〜ではないです or ではありません
〜ではなかったです or 〜ではありませんでした

[Harv]

na-adj
〜ではないです or ではありません
〜ではなかったです or 〜ではありませんでした

For na I learnt
〜じゃないです or じゃありません
〜じゃなかったです or 〜じゃありませんでした

How many ways are there to conjugate?

[Jason]

じゃ is just a contraction of では (pronounced "dewa" not "deha", btw). It's the same thing.

[rdesiree]

THANKS

... I stumbled upon a couple of other minor things:

1) does 〜も〜も　ない　mean neither... nor ?
2) may I use 〜に　行きます and 〜へ　行きます　indifferently? I can't make out a rule for the usage of へ　and に。
3) somewhere I've seen ないです、and assumed it's formal negative of ある．However, the formal neg should be ありません, informal neg ない. That leaves me with ないです
Somewhere I've got something wrong

The more I learn, the more confused I get...

エヂてdフォrsぺっりんg！

[Harv]

じゃ is just a contraction of では (pronounced "dewa" not "deha", btw). It's the same thing.

Thanks. Thats good to know, I wont get confused if I hear it in the future.

[Jason]

1) does 〜も〜も　ない　mean neither... nor ?

Yes. Literally "both are not."

2) may I use 〜に　行きます and 〜へ　行きます　indifferently? I can't make out a rule for the usage of へ　and に。

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. In general, へ should only be used for physical places. に can be used for either physical places or more "abstract" places. Compare:

クラスに行きます。 [OK]
クラスへ行きます。[NO!]
教室に行きます。[OK]
教室へ行きます。[OK]

クラス (class) is an "abstract" place (or thing), where 教室 (classroom) is an actual physical place with walls and everything. All the sentences except the 2nd one work. Because クラス is an abstract place, you can't use へ here. In the 3rd and 4th sentences, since 教室 is a physical place へ and に can be used interchangably. Here's another example using the same pattern with 仕事 (work) and 会社 (company):

仕事に行きます。[OK]
仕事へ行きます。[NO!]
会社に行きます。[OK]
会社へ行きます。[OK]

3) somewhere I've seen ないです、and assumed it's formal negative of ある．However, the formal neg should be ありません, informal neg ない. That leaves me with ないです

It is. ある has 2 polite negative forms: ないです and ありません, ありません being the softer of the 2.

[Belton]

2) may I use 〜に　行きます and 〜へ　行きます　indifferently? I can't make out a rule for the usage of へ　and に。

Well, I don't seem to be doing very well so far.
But my understanding is へ is generally interchangeable with に when indicating motion towards. As such "Japanese For Busy People" doesn't use へ only に。And へ has never been introduced in my Japanese class. (But Japanese people I write to use it all the time )

I'd need to check the next bit
I think it depends on the relative sizes of the place you are moving from and to as to whether へ or に is more appropriate. Or maybe it's how precise the point is you are going to. (eg. to Japan, big general destination, the local convini more specific a destination)
I'll look it up when I get home.

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edit
I see Jason-san has posted while I wrote so what I say could well be... superfluous.

[Jason]

As such "Japanese For Busy People" doesn't use へ only に。

This is a different class of に. This is not a "motion towards" に, but a "for the purpose/sake of" に. に has all sorts of different uses.

[rdesiree]

Thanks Belton, thanks Jason!

に has all sorts of different uses.

　 that's making me a bit uncomfortable... seems there aren't enough words in japanese. E.g. Why should one use just one word "で" for all its different meanings ?

[Belton]

As such "Japanese For Busy People" doesn't use へ only に。

This is a different class of に. This is not a "motion towards" に, but a "for the purpose/sake of" に. に has all sorts of different uses.

I know of the myriad uses of に. (I'm starting to think when in doubt use に, the odds are in your favour. )

for motion verbs JFBP briefly introduces へ and then explicitly uses に in all cases where either can be used.
It does point out the usage difference as
へ　expresses direction
に　expresses arrival at a destination

As I said I'd look it up.
from Naoko Chino's All About Particles
へ
1. Indicates a direction or goal, or a destination toward which one is moving or at which one has arrived:"to"
(seems to contradict JFBF )
2. Indicates a recipient of an action (in English, equivalent to the indirect object): "to"
In both usages に may replace へ except when へ is followed by の in usage 2.

に
(amongst 15 different uses are)
• Indicates movement from a larger to a smaller place. (both physical and abstract):"in, into"
(contrast with を-- movement from a smaller to a larger place)
• Indicates movement toward a place: "to"
(へ may also be used here)

(and similar to へ #2 above)
• Indicates the recipient of an action (in English, equivalent to the indirect object): "to, from".
When the meaning is "to" へ may replace に. When the meaning is "from" から may replace に