The use of wa and ga

[countrugen]

Hello all,

Let me start by saying that I am an absolute beginner attempting to cram a few words and sentences before a holiday to Japan in mid october.

I have been using a basic book as well as Japanese Pod to learn and I have noticed that there appear to be certain times where 'ga' is used rather than 'wa' to indicate the subject of a sentence. For instance:

Asoko ni eki ga arimasu

and

Eki wa asoko ni arimasu

Are these two words interchangeable or are there rules when you should use one or the other.

Thanks and apologies if this is a bit of a numpty question.

Jon

[Jason]

Sometimes they're interchangable, but there are a lot of times they're not. Since you're an absolute beginner, I wouldn't recommend trying to get into the details of how they're different. It'll do more harm than good. At this point, you should just memorize when there are specific times to use one or the other. Like in the examples you gave. A lot of learners, including myself, who've been studying for ~4+ years still don't really understand it. So for now just be aware that they are different and don't sweat the details just yet.

[countrugen]

Thanks for the reply.

The complexity is probably why the book did not go into any details.

Seems like something that you can only get by listening to the language more.

Cheers,

Jon

[tintinium]

A book could be written on the differences... but really... if you want a good explanation:

[は.]This particle also has three roles in Japanese. The first of these is to act as topic marker for conversations or texts. The main difference between a topic and a subject is that you can leave off a topic from a sentence, and it will still make perfect sense. This in contrast to a subject, which if removed creates a sentence with a gap in it:
今日は誰だれが来きましたか
Who came [here] today?

The same sentence on its own without the topic works just fine:
誰が来ましたか。
Who came [here]?

However, the same sentence on its own without the subject is unintelligible:
今日は来ましたか。
came [here] today?

The key words in the preceding bit are "on its own". It is entirely possible that this last sentence is used in a conversation where the topic is already someone who comes by on a regular basis, in which setting this sentence would make perfect sense. However, because in this setting it wouldn't be a subject but a topic, it could still be omitted while resulting in a working sentence.

quoted from this pdf

In your example, eki ha asoki ni arimasu could be translated
"As for the station (that we're discussing) it's over there."

asoko ni eki ga arimasu means (there is a station over there).

You can use ga to introduce a new topic... and then use wa to talk about it.

There's more to it than that, however. I'd encourage you to read up about it and listen to when each is used. It becomes intuitive to a degree... but learning more about it when you're a beginner certainly doesn't hurt.

[seanolan]

One simple, but usually correct, rule of thumb is, if in English you would use the article "a/an" or "some", use "ga". If you would use the article "the", use "wa". Obviously there are instances when this does not work, but for general use it will help. I teach English to Japanese, and while my J-go is definitely upper beginner, I have had to come up with the opposite to help my kids figure out when to use "a/an" and when to use "the". A simple example:

Neko ga suki desu ka. - Do you like cats/a cat? (in general)

Neko wa suki desu ka. - Do you like this/the cat? (which we have established the existence of previously)

In English, we would only use "the" for a cat once we have established and agreed upon the existence of a particular cat. Same with "wa" in Japanese, from what I understand.

Look! There is a cat. The cat is pretty.
Mite! Neko ga imasu yo. Neko wa kirei desu.

The other English teachers at my school cannot find a flaw with this explanation (yet!) but if anyone sees where this is untrue, please let me know!

Sean

[Bueller_007]

One simple, but usually correct, rule of thumb is, if in English you would use the article "a/an" or "some", use "ga". If you would use the article "the", use "wa". Obviously there are instances when this does not work, but for general use it will help. I teach English to Japanese, and while my J-go is definitely upper beginner, I have had to come up with the opposite to help my kids figure out when to use "a/an" and when to use "the". A simple example:

Neko ga suki desu ka. - Do you like cats/a cat? (in general)

Neko wa suki desu ka. - Do you like this/the cat? (which we have established the existence of previously)

In English, we would only use "the" for a cat once we have established and agreed upon the existence of a particular cat. Same with "wa" in Japanese, from what I understand.

Look! There is a cat. The cat is pretty.
Mite! Neko ga imasu yo. Neko wa kirei desu.

The other English teachers at my school cannot find a flaw with this explanation (yet!) but if anyone sees where this is untrue, please let me know!

Sean

Basically, in the most simple of cases, your rule is right, and that's often the way I explain it as well.

But it often fails, particularly in the general case, when the English equivalent does not use an article at all. In the following example, "ga" = "the" and "wa" = nothing.

The stars are beautiful [now]. -- 星がきれいだね。
Stars are beautiful [in general]. -- 星はきれいだね。


And you often need additional context to determine the article to be used.

This sentence:
ネコは好きですが、犬は好きじゃない。

Can mean both:
I like the cats, but I don't like the dogs. (When referring to specific groups of animals.)
and:
I like cats, but I don't like dogs. (When referring to the general case.)


Most importantly, "wa" is not used in the middle of a subordinate/relative clause. You should use "ga" or "no", regardless of whether or not its English equivalent is "a", "the" or nothing.

地震があったとき。。。
After an earthquake...
After the earthquake...
After earthquakes...


So yeah, it's a decent rule to use as a starting point in simple conversation, but once you start using more advanced structures, it kinda falls apart.

[countrugen]

Thanks for all the replies on this it is starting to make some sense rather than the random impression I had before.

I am in Japan in two weeks so I get to try out all this stuff!

Jon