Compound sentences し and て／で

[ly2kutd1552]

Hi, I have a question.

Are these 2 sentences grammatically correct?
If so, do they mean the same thing?

This movie is enjoyable and interesting.
このゲームは楽しくて、面白いです。
このゲームは楽しし、面白いです。

I'm still a little confused with the usages of し、て／で。

Thank you.

[mmmason8967]

I think し has a connotation somewhat like "not only ... but also".

このゲームは楽しくて面白いです。
This game is enjoyable and interesting.

このゲームは楽しいし、面白いです。
This game is enjoyable, and it's interesting too.
Or maybe: this game is enjoyable and it's interesting.

マイケル

[community.japanese]

ly2kutd1552-san, マイケルsan,
kon'nichiwa!
That's spot-on, マイケルsan!

When we simply describe something with two or more adjectives, we use ～くて form,
while when we give the second adjective as "additional information", we use ～し

Natsuko (奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[ly2kutd1552]

Thank you マイケルさん and 奈津子さん。

Just to clarify, is で only used when I want to compound a nouns, verbs or な adjectives?
And are し and て only used for compounding い adjectives?

For eg.

Noun + Noun
My daughter is a teacher and a manga artist.
私の娘は教師で、漫画家です。

Noun + Verb
I'm currently a university student and I'm majoring in History.
わたしは今大学生で、歴史を専攻しています。

Verb + Verb
I read a book and listened to music last night.
わたしは昨日の夜本を読んで、音楽を聞きました。

な Adjective
That man is handsome and tall.
あの男の子はハンサムで、背が高いです。

Thank you.

[mmmason8967]

Just to clarify, is で only used when I want to compound a nouns, verbs or な adjectives?
And are し and て only used for compounding い adjectives?

No, that's not quite how it works. It's actually simpler than that. Let's put し to one side for the moment and focus on て and で.

For verbs you use the te-form. The te-form can end in て or it can end in で. The basic rule is that you start with the informal past form of the verb, which is going to end either with た or with だ. If the last character is た, you replace it with て and if the last character is だ you replace it with で.

い-adjectives behave a lot like verbs, so you use the te-form for them as well. To make the te-form, replace the final い with くて.

For nouns use the te-form of です, which is で.

な-adjectives are a lot like nouns, so you use the te-form of です for them as well.

In summary, you use the te-form if there is one or the te-form of です if there isn't. Armed with that information, let's look at your sample sentences and see where the て or で came from:-

Noun + Noun
My daughter is a teacher and a manga artist.
私の娘は教師で、漫画家です。

Here you're using the te-form of です to join these two simple sentences:-

教師です。漫画家です。
She is a teacher. She is a manga artist.

Noun + Verb
I'm currently a university student and I'm majoring in History.
わたしは今大学生で、歴史を専攻しています。

Again, it's the te-form of です joining two simple sentences:-

大学生です。歴史を専攻しています。
I am a university student. I am majoring in History.

Verb + Verb
I read a book and listened to music last night.
わたしは昨日の夜本を読んで、音楽を聞きました。

Here it's the te-form of 読む that's joining these two simple sentences:-

本を読んだ。音楽を聞きました。
I read a book. I listened to music.

な Adjective
That man is handsome and tall.
あの男の子はハンサムで、背が高いです。

Here it's the te-form of です again. And the two simple sentences are:-

ハンサムです。背が高いです。
He is handsome. He is tall.

マイケル

[thegooseking]

When using a conjunction with verbs, you use the ~て-form of the verb. (There is actually another conjunctive verb form, which is the ~たり-form, but I'm not entirely clear on the difference in use between that and the て-form.)

で is actually the ~て-form of です, so you're right that you use it after nouns and na-adjectives, but you don't use it after verbs.

~くて is used for conjunctions of i-adjectives, and verbs that "behave" like i-adjectives (e.g. the negative -ない or the desiderative -たい).

You can use し after verbs or i-adjectives. Really, you can only use it to conjoin clauses, which normally need a verb. However, an i-adjective implies です／だ so it doesn't need any verb.

Your use of で in the examples, though, is correct. 読んで does end in で, but it's actually the て-form of 読む - verbs where the last syllable is む、ぬ、ぶ or ぐ in the dictionary form end in で in the て-form.

小狼

[community.japanese]

Hello マイケルさん、小狼さん、
Thank you for the explanation.


ly2kutd1552　さん、
If you still have questions, feel free to ask us.

Yuki 由紀
Team JapanesePod101.com

[ly2kutd1552]

Thank you マイケルさん、小狼さん!

I fully understand it now. I can't believe I overcomplicated things haha.

On the subject of し。

Can し be used on all nouns, verbs and adjectives?

Thank you.

[thegooseking]

Edit: I'm going to have to withdraw my explanation, because having looked into it a bit more, I'm not sure about it any more! Sorry.

小狼

[community.japanese]

Hello ly2kutd1552　さん、
Yes, you can put 視 after all of them.
For example,
もう午後9時（Noun）だし、おなかがすいた（Verb）し、帰りたいです。
It's already 9pm and I am hungry so I want to go home.
この服はきれい（なAdjective）だし、かわいい（いAdjective）し買います。
Note
Please pay attention to put だafter nouns and na-adjectives.
Yuki 由紀
Team JapanesePod101.com

[thegooseking]

由紀先生、

That's what I thought. I was going to say し is a conjunction, so it needs to join clauses, which need to contain a verb or an i-adjective (which is why you need だ after nouns and na-adjectives - it fills the verb role).

However, the reason I withdrew that explanation is that when I looked it up in the dictionary, I saw that し was listed as both a conjunction and a particle, and I got confused. What's the difference between using it as a conjunction and using it as a particle?

小狼

[mmmason8967]

...when I looked it up in the dictionary, I saw that し was listed as both a conjunction and a particle, and I got confused. What's the difference between using it as a conjunction and using it as a particle?

Doesn't it just mean that し is a particle, and it's a particle that's used as a conjunction? That is, "particle" is the kind of word it is (i.e. not a noun, verb, adjective or adverb) and "conjunction" is the work that it does.

マイケル

[community.japanese]

小狼さん 、マイケルさん

I can understand the confusion.
I know some dictionaries say it's one of particles and others say it's a conjunction.
I think that linguists have been discussing that and I don't know which group is superiority.
Anyway the usages are same.
The function is 'a cojunction to dindicate ''and" in an emphatic way'.

Yuki 由紀
Team JapanesePod101.com

[ly2kutd1552]

Thank you 由紀先生 for the explanation and clarification!

I understand how it works now.

[community.japanese]

Hello ly2kutd1552 san,

Douitashimashite.
If you have questions or suggestions, please feel free to ask us.
Thank you.

Yuki　由紀
Team JapanesePod101.com