What does "wake" actually mean?

[kepompong]

I have somewhat an idea of the nuance "wake" gives but never actually know the official translation and sometimes when it is used in long sentences, I ended up being confused. So if someone can kindly explain, it would really help me.

For example, そりゃ海に行かないわけには行かないわけですよ！！

On another note, I was reading manga in Japanese and there's this part where they put big black circle in the sentence. What does this actually mean?

The sentence was: と●ロでるんじゃねェ？●トロ!!

Thank you for the help!!

[Psy]

For example, そりゃ海に行かないわけには行かないわけですよ！！

As there are a lot of different sentence patterns revolving around わけ, it can be pretty confusing when you try to apply the dictionary definition of "reason" to situations like the one you posted. What about から/ので, right? Don't they express reasons too? How is わけ different? Well, to keep it short:

わけ expresses that something is the result of some particular chain of events, either previously mentioned or already understood. One could argue that it's kind of like はず except a tad less it ought to be this way and a tad more with that in mind this result is expected. A common example is, say, knowing that your Japanese friend lived in America for 10 years, you could add 英語が上手なわけですね。わけにはいかない、however, is a set form that means essentially "couldn't do ~何々~ even if we wanted to. [~added~ because of the circumstances, not for lack of ability (thanks, mieth)]" From ALC:

このまま続けるわけにはいかない。
This has to stop.
こんなチャンスを見逃すわけにはいかない。
I can't let this opportunity pass me by.

わけ has many other uses as well, so watch out!

On another note, I was reading manga in Japanese and there's this part where they put big black circle in the sentence. What does this actually mean?

The sentence was: と●ロでるんじゃねェ？●トロ!!

I've only done 4 books of manga so I'm not the best person to ask, but the only time I've seen this is when something (like a name, a trademark product, swear word, etc.) is being censored. I don't know the relevance of it here, so I'm afraid I can't offer you anything more.

Happy studies!

[Jessi]

On another note, I was reading manga in Japanese and there's this part where they put big black circle in the sentence. What does this actually mean?

The sentence was: と●ロでるんじゃねェ？●トロ!!

I could be wrong, but I think they're talking about トトロ？ If you put both edited versions of the word together, that's what you get anyway But yeah, as Psy said, circles are often used when using trademark names/brand names.

[kepompong]

You guys are awesome!! Thanks for the help!

[mieth]

psy, wake ni ha ikanai refers to not being able to do something because of an outside situation or circumstance that is blocking or preventing you from doing that action. Also depending on the situation is could denote that you wont be forgiven if you do some particular action. also it cant be used for a situation where you just dont have the ability to do something. there has to be something blocking or preventing you from being able to do it
for example

I can't ski ( meaning you don't have the ability to skii)
vs
There was an avalanche so I can't ski.

the second form you could use wake ni ha ikanai but it assumes the fact that you actually can ski but just can't because of the avalanche.

cheers

[Javizy]

The latest upper-intermediate lesson had a good explanation of わけ. I've always had difficulty, not so much with understanding, but with using it myself, and I found the lesson really helpful.

[Psy]

psy, wake ni ha ikanai refers to not being able to do something because of an outside situation or circumstance that is blocking or preventing you from doing that action. Also depending on the situation is could denote that you wont be forgiven if you do some particular action. also it cant be used for a situation where you just dont have the ability to do something. there has to be something blocking or preventing you from being able to do it
for example

I can't ski ( meaning you don't have the ability to skii)
vs
There was an avalanche so I can't ski.

the second form you could use wake ni ha ikanai but it assumes the fact that you actually can ski but just can't because of the avalanche.

cheers

Thanks, mate. I botched my explanation. I remember there being an example somewhere in Breen that goes along the line of 日本語が話すわけにはいかない meaning "we can't speak Japanese [even though we can, it isn't possible given the circumstances]," which, of course, matches perfectly with your explanation. I'll edit my post above to avoid misleading people.

[kepompong]

psy, wake ni ha ikanai refers to not being able to do something because of an outside situation or circumstance that is blocking or preventing you from doing that action. Also depending on the situation is could denote that you wont be forgiven if you do some particular action. also it cant be used for a situation where you just dont have the ability to do something. there has to be something blocking or preventing you from being able to do it
for example

I can't ski ( meaning you don't have the ability to skii)
vs
There was an avalanche so I can't ski.

the second form you could use wake ni ha ikanai but it assumes the fact that you actually can ski but just can't because of the avalanche.

cheers

So for my example, if I try to translate literally it, is it "it's not forgiven to not go to sea" ie. "we have to go to sea (as an obligation)"?

Thanks again for all the input guys, they are all very helpful.

[Psy]

I'd say so. Kind of a double negative happening there, like saying "we can't not do it" in English. The second わけ at the end is referencing something either previously mentioned or understood from context.

[Rheotron]

I know this is an outdated thread.

Just for the sake of completeness an additional explanation can be found here:
"Hazu and wake"
http://www014.upp.so-net.ne.jp/nbunka/05nov.html
 

[Teabag]

I know this is an outdated thread.

Just for the sake of completeness an additional explanation can be found here:
"Hazu and wake"
http://www014.upp.so-net.ne.jp/nbunka/05nov.html
 

Amazing!!
How could you locate such thorough explanations?!
I guess after we work these 2 out, time to get confused with はず and べき!
Thank you. It's very helpful:)

[community.japanese]

Rheotron-san,
thank you very much for sharing the very useful information!
The threat could be outdated, but there's always someone who appreciate it! And you got two already

Teabag-san,
you're right! Now you've got a brilliant help for the first "pair" to study, and after that, next one はず and べき

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com