日本語カリスマスキャロル

[Ian_Dickey_489166]

みなさんこにちは。わたしはィアンです。トロントにすんでいます。わたしのはじめてpostです。しつもんはあります。カリスマスパーティーデ日本語カリスマスキャロルをうたっている。おすすめは何ですか? 日本でにんきがある何ですか

This Christmas I get to sing Christmas carols in Japanese with my class to all the children at Japanese school I go to. Anyone have any suggestions? What is popular in Japan?　

I couldn't think figure how to say post in Japanese. Anybody know?

どもありがとう

[natsukoy9313]

イアンさん、
すてきですね！
日本語のクリスマス・キャロルで、一番有名なのは「きよしこのよる」だと思います。この歌はいろいろな言語で
歌われているので、日本語のバージョンもしょうかいしてください
Wow, that's fabulous!
I think "kiyoshi konoyoru" is the most famous carol. This song (Silent Night) is sung in many languages, so
please introduce Japanese version

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[mwbeale6642]

奈津子先生、

「キャロル」の発音は　なんですか。　「kyaroru」ですか。　英語で　「carol」というので、　どうして　カタカナで　「カロル」と　書きませんか。　そして　「キャンドル」は　英語で　「candle」です。　どうして　カタカナで　「カンドル」と　書かれませんか。

すみみせんが、　私の　最後の　文章は　いい　受け身で　書かれましたか。

マーティン

[mmmason8967]

「キャロル」の発音は　なんですか。　「kyaroru」ですか。　英語で　「carol」というので、　どうして　カタカナで　「カロル」と　書きませんか。　そして　「キャンドル」は　英語で　「candle」です。　どうして　カタカナで　「カンドル」と　書かれませんか。

I'm keen to hear an answer to this question too. From looking and listening, I think that it's a kind of phonetic trick. The best example of what I mean is きゃり (as in きゃりぱみゅぱみゅ): if you listen to KPP or other Japanese speakers saying it, it sounds a lot like the English name 'Carrie', with a slight emphasis on the first syllable. If it was spelt かり, the pronunciation would be more even and less like 'Carrie'.

So I think that the キャ in キャロル and キャンドル is helping to make the Japanese pronunciation sound closer to the English pronunciation.

すみみせんが、　私の　最後の　文章は　いい　受け身で　書かれましたか。

Well, it looks like convincingly passive to me. But to be honest, in these matters I wouldn't trust my opinion any further than you can comfortably toss a Volkswagen...

マイケル

[ericf]

I'd always thought, rather naively, that anything beginning ka (kangaroo, kart) became カ（カンガルー、カート） and anything starting ca (canon, cap, candy, carol, candle etc) became キャ（キャノン、キャップ、キャロル、キャンドル）but I suspect it's not that simple and that there are exceptions that I just haven't come across yet.

As to why, it's probably slight differences in pronunciation of the a sound; the vowel in canon being higher than in cast, and the palatalised キャ sound helping to make that difference. Maybe. I'm really not sure about all this. But remember that English has far more than 5 vowel sounds, whereas Japanese only has 5.

The sci.lang.japan FAQ is a good source of info on things like this.
http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/english-in-japanese.html

エリック

[mmmason8967]

I'd always thought, rather naively, that anything beginning ka (kangaroo, kart) became カ（カンガルー、カート） and anything starting ca (canon, cap, candy, carol, candle etc) became キャ（キャノン、キャップ、キャロル、キャンドル）but I suspect it's not that simple and that there are exceptions that I just haven't come across yet.

That's an interesting theory. But I think it falls down a bit if you consider how few English words start with 'ka'. I had a quick look at the Concise OED: there aren't many 'ka' words, and nearly all of them are loan words from other languages, with Japanese accounting for maybe 20% of the total.

And 'kart' doesn't count because (a) it's a long vowel sound and (b) it's starts with a 'c' not a 'k''

As to why, it's probably slight differences in pronunciation of the a sound; the vowel in canon being higher than in cast, and the palatalised キャ sound helping to make that difference. Maybe. I'm really not sure about all this. But remember that English has far more than 5 vowel sounds, whereas Japanese only has 5.

The sci.lang.japan FAQ is a good source of info on things like this.
http://www.sljfaq.org/afaq/english-in-japanese.html

Interesting that they reckon a lot of the pronunciation is taken from British English. It works for me, and explains why "cut" is カット; that's pretty close to how it's said around these parts. At any rate, it seems that Japanese people must have heard English speakers saying "carol" and thought that it sounded like キャロル rather than カロル.

I don't quite get it but, as I said previously, I've heard a number of different Japanese speakers say きゃり, including the lady herself, and they all sound like they're saying "Carrie", which, given it's supposed to be short for Carolyn, suggests that the きゃ spelling does make a difference.

マイケル

[ericf]

And 'kart' doesn't count because (a) it's a long vowel sound and (b) it's starts with a 'c' not a 'k'' :wink:

Wibble! What on earth was I thinking?

Yes, there are aren't many ka words are there.

[natsukoy9313]

Wow, so many replies from advanced learners! Thank you!!
I know; some words are written rather according to AMERICAN pronunciation instead of how the spellings are
People's names can vary, but those words that we Japanese alreay use as common words (in Japanese) are rather fixed.

And, yes, your passive form was correctly written and properly used, マーティンさん

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[mmmason8967]

奈津子さん、お帰りなさい！

I would expect English words to be borrowed from the USA rather than from England. Words like エレベーター obviously come from the USA because in England we call it a "lift". Nevertheless many Japanese words really do seem to have come from British English rather than American English. For example, スマート must have come from British English because we use "smart" to mean "good appearance" but Americans use it to mean "good intelligence". Perhaps it's the older loan words that come from British English while recent ones come from American English?

Anyway ... can you help explain why so many English loan words that start "ca" are spelt with キャ rather than カ?

マイケル

[natsukoy9313]

マイケルさん、
I think the pronunciation of borrowed words are usually based on US English pronunciation (キャ for "ca" and so on)
because of English education in Japan. After WW2, English education was of course all about American English, so
the pronunciation taught at schools were also mainly American. This "tendency" is still true in most of the schools.
On word basis, it really depends on "when" and "how" the subject objects are introduced. If you know the Japanese
words related to car, for example, many of them are rather based on UK English.
i.g. ウィンカー、ボンネット、ナンバープレート
Of course, for some reasons, we adopted US words too...

Interesting observation would be the word "can" (= "tin" in UK).
I think Japanese never really recognise this word as キャン simply because original Japanese actually is 缶（かん）

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com

[ericf]

It seems there are plenty of ca words that become カ: カメラ、カレンダー、カナダ、カタログ、カセットテープ、カジュアル。Some long a words too: カード、カーディガン。And they're words that I well know, so I'm left wondering where I got my funny "rule" from in the first place.

Interestingly, if you look at Wikipedia's "list of words containing a yogh" (the Middle English Ȝ ȝ) there are some unexpected (to me) words; ȝif (if), ȝhere (ear), wrouȝte (wrote), yhalȝed (hallowed) and yherberȝed (harboured.) None of which seem to contain a "y" sound to my ȝhere. So maybe there are words that sound カ to native English speakers (or just me;-) but sound キャ to Japanese for example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogh#List_ ... ing_a_yogh

Œric.

[natsukoy9313]

ericf-san,
Wow! You're right! I couldn't remember all those words starting with カ
But words like カード　are not really the case of this キャ and カ since American pronunciation is also　カ for those words.
Those differences of writings (カ or キャ) originates usually in the history: "when" and "how" those things were instroduced to Japan. It also seems that it has some kind of connection to the origin of English word, like "camera", which came from Latin word.

It might be interesting to investigate all those words with their root!

Natsuko(奈津子),
Team JapanesePod101.com