Should I quit studying Japanese? (long)

[Earl]

Let me apologise beforehand for not knowing where to post this.

Let me start by giving a background on my situation. I have been studying Japanese for 3 years now and used to have a great passion for the language. I started studying Japanese by myself using Japanesepod101 until I went to Sapporo to study for a year at a private Japanese language school. I really tried my best to learn the language. That said everyone who was in my class learned everything much easier than me and i would always struggle to retain knowledge. i feel like i put in twice the effort and got half the results. That said, I still had a really good time and a great experience in Japan.

Then after my Visa expired i went to london to study Japanese at University and thats when my passion began to fade. I started in an intermediate class as that was the highest level they were running that year and found myself studying the same things all over again. Worst of all, even though i was at a higher level than my classmates I found that i was the most incompetant. The lessons were more conversation based and I have trouble trying to say things that seem to come easily to most people. Less than a year on my attendance was lacking and I was barely studying at all. I really felt like the teacher had no idea what my strong and weak points were and that most of the time she spoke to me like i was an idoit. I packed in the course as i had learned nothing and my Japanese had gotten worse. Determined not to give up i decided to take a more practical approach.

I decided to take a more practical approach and this leads me to my present situation. Aswell as taking up Jpod again, Im now working in a Japanese restaurant in the kitchen. It is a Japanese working enviroment and while all the staff are nice I feel like everyone has already decided that my Japanese is poor. I can understand most of whats being said but when people speak to me its always in a small voice and they always throw english in with it and it throws me off. Yesterday when i said something everbody was really shocked and they were all saying my Japanese was 上手but it really angers me because it wasnt even difficult Japanese and it shows how far ive slipped. Now im looking at a bunch of kanji on anki that i used to be able to write with ease and i cant even recognize them without the translation.

My japanese girlfriend (who lives in sapporo) split with me (long distance issues) and since then have been doing language exchange with a Japanese girl in London and we get on really well but when i see how determined she is to learn English it reminds me of something i used to be. I feel like a little piece inside me has died and if i keep on going i will just grow to hate the language even more. On the other hand if i stop i will be throwing away something ive worked really hard at. I planned to graduate uni and become and English teacher in Japan but now ive wasted that chance i really dont know what use this would be to my future anymore? Has anyone had any dilemas like this before and if so what did you do? What do you think i should do?

I understand if you dont want to reply. I wrote to much. I guess im just really introverted and have trouble communicating what i mean any other way.

[animeobsessions8188]

I haven't experienced what you're going through and I'm just started learning this language so I'm probably feeling the way you used to but I'll say a little something anyway. It sounds like you just need to try and get the fun back into learning and find some people to practice with that will encourage you instead of making you feel inferior (might be able to find someone on here or other Japanese learning forums/sites, or if you have the money you could get a personal instructor).

I wouldn't stop learning the language if I were you. Just try to find a way to make it fun again. Maybe you could do this by reading books/manga, watching movies/anime, playing Japanese games, I donno, just something that you find fun that will help you continue learning. If you can't, maybe a break is needed. Just don't give up on it yet.

Hope something here might help. If not I hope someone else gives you some better ideas and I wish you all the best.

[Belton]

My advice for what it is worth is complete your degree whatever you do. Any degree is useful, it can lead to many more opportunities. Don't give up. It's much easier to do in your early twenties than to find the time and money later on.
That said you were struggling. You should talk to your personal tutor about what's going on, I'm sure you're not the first student to have these problems and the university has many reasons for wanting you to continue and be successful. Even if you've already dropped out, it's worth exploring going back. It does sound as if you may have taken a class that was beyond your 'productive' level, maybe you should start at the beginning, even if it does mean in class you are relearning what you already know. Look at it as consolidation instead and use time outside class to improve areas that interest you. It's all about that piece of paper at the end. (or maybe degree level Japanese isn't for you, it might be better to study something else and study Japanese as an extra or dare I say a hobby)

Unfortunately university isn't too good dealing with an individual's rate of learning. It is a bit sink or swim and about meeting a particular assessable level in a particular timeframe. As everyone learns at a different rate, this can be harsh on some (or many). Self-led learning is better in this respect but you don't get the piece of paper you need and it's difficult to self assess your progress. In a class situation adult education can be better (but very slow) as the teacher can gauge the pace based on the whole class and is unlikely to have to hit particular targets.

Learning a language is difficult and a long term endeavour. Everyone has spells of disillusionment, when you question the reasons for doing it, and it feels like you are making no progress or going backward. If you want to continue you have to hang in there. Remember why you started and what you found enjoyable. Re-assess why you are doing it and what you hope to achieve and what your short and long term goals are. You might need to find a new enjoyable approach to re-enliven your studies. You also have to be kind to yourself and not beat yourself up over your progress. As long as you keep on doing some study regularly you are making progress however slow. You probably shouldn't measure your progress against other people. Focus on what *you* can do and what *you* have achieved.

I've had moments of doubt and frustration as well. I just needed to step back a bit and have a rethink and I stuck with it because I felt it was important to me. Now I'm in it for the long term as I married a Japanese woman and my in-laws speak no English. I may not progress as much as I want and I feel I've gotten worse at times (whereas I once travelled in Japan alone I'm now a bit lazy and rely on my wife too much), but I'm not giving in and I might be better than I think as I managed to follow a conversation between my wife and her mother yesterday, and could successfully spend a day or two showing my wife's friend (who didn't speak English) around London. Practical, communicative, real-world tasks.

I wouldn't underestimate the effect that breaking up with your girlfriend has had on you and how you feel about Japanese etc.

I think it's great that you found a job where you are exposed to Japanese. However, these people aren't your teachers. (nor are boyfriends, girlfriends, shop staff, random strangers or co-workers) They just need to communicate and often English or simple Japanese serves that need better. That's not to say you can't learn from them but you can't expect them to teach you or constantly work at your level of Japanese.
The jouzu thing is a cultural tick. Everyone experiences it at some stage, if it's any consolation it's usually well meant. It's best to ignore it mostly.
Also your Japanese friend has a much stronger motivation to learn English, merely to survive in the all English environment of the UK. She will also make much faster progress than you because she is in an immersive environment. (And has at least 5 years of secondary school English and possibly university instruction as well). I achieved the most when I had no choice because the Japanese people I met didn't speak English or spoke very little English.

On a practical level, it sounds as if you need to force yourself to communicate verbally in Japanese, even if you make mistakes, or have to be creative to talk about things you don't have vocabulary or grammar for. It's hard if you're not extrovert, but ultimately you need to speak to Japanese people. Talking to fellow learners is a bit artificial really. If you speak with Japanese their greater knowledge makes up for your mistakes. I'd concentrate on just social discussion rather than practising the grammar point du jour. If you are introverted maybe in Japanese you can act the part of extrovert. Fake it!
I would suggest finding an experienced one to one teacher who will only speak to you in Japanese and will work around your weaknesses. If you are in London you could try the London Japanese meetup. Lots more people to talk to in a social setting, all learners at different abilities, both of English and Japanese. I haven't gone myself, as I live too far away now, but the convener, Paul, is an ex-classmate and a nice guy. There's a meetup next week.

If it's important to you and if you can rediscover why it made you happy, don't give up. 頑張れ！

(I write long replies too! 笑）

[Earl]

Id like to thank you both for the reply and apologize for the late reply.

Belton- I remember you posting here when i first started studying japanese and as such im grateful for the in depth reply.

I took your advice and tried to stop comparing myself to others and focus on my own abilities and although it doesnt come natural to me i can definately say its making a difference in the work place. Already people at work are starting to notice my ability and im more involved in conversations and am starting to make friends with them a lot more. Im not going to get too carried away though as usually this is just me going through the paces but if i can stop berating myself then im sure i will have less of these "bumps" along the way.

As far as University goes im not sure. Im not too keen on the setup of the university i just dropped out of and to tell the truth I think doing a degree in Japanese sort of take the fun out of it for me. I do however agree that a degree is an important thing to have in todays world and vital to those wishing to be in japan for the long term. I am considering doing a teaching diploma next semester which can be done at a pace and time to meet ones own demands and the course im looking at allows for university progression and accreditation. This would allow for a more relaxed schedule than trying to do a degree while working a full time job. Being a teacher is what i want to do as a career anyway and it makes more sense to me to do that as a degree i think.

One to one teaching is something i have been thinking for some time now as it allows me to go at my own pace and the teacher can focus on me rather than split it with a class. The usual problem is the price but seeing as im working alot of the time anyway, i might look into recieving a lesson for a couple of hours per week.

London definately seem to be the place in the UK for those looking for an opportunity to practice Japanese and i wouldnt like to throw that away. It will probabily be a while before i can move to Japan in the long term and until then i have a lot of time to become ぺらぺら.