'Reading Japanese' (Jorden/Chaplin) help!!!

[Spiderwick]

I've finally started to take learning Kanji more seriously. I really like the 'Reading Japanese' book however I noted today that it doesn't seem to provide all readings!! 上 only has the kun readings and not the on readings (my other book offers ジョウ　and ショウ). Why is this? Should I ditch 'Reading Japanese'? I really liked the book's approach to the language, sad to let it go but worried about other readings in may miss out
Barbara

[j_bertoni2279]

Characters tend to have a lot of readings, many of which are barely used at all. I'd start with a book based on the Monbusho Joyo list. If this is the "Reading Japanese" book I remember, it's ancient, and I didn't like it very much. How are you studying the characters?

[Javizy]

If it is the ancient book, then I'd try to send it back if you still can, because that was horrible. Why not try something like smart.fm's Core 2000? You just review flashcards of sentences (with audio), and by the end of it you can read 2000 words with no forgetting (something a book can't really guarantee). If you repeat the audio out loud each time, it can benefit your pronunciation and speaking skills to some extent too.

[Spiderwick]

Thank you so much for the advice
I do enjoy using smart.fm (or Iknow as it is now [and used to be] called). I really get a lot out of this. I just wish I could practice my reading more. I’ve bought so many books and yet I’ve found it hard to keep up with any of them for different reasons.

‘A guide to reading and writing Japanese’ – merely used as a reference (though I haven’t touched this book in years)
Heisig Vol 1 – really helped me recognise the kanji though obviously not how to read them. I dip into this ever so often.
みんなの日本語　Kanji Workbook - not really used
Basic Kanji Book vol 1 – started this but stopped when I had no idea when each reading should be employed.
250 Essential Japanese Kanji Characters – a new purchase so I haven’t tried this yet.
First 100 Japanese Kanji Characters – dull drill exercises (yeah, I know it’s important but really doesn’t make me enthusiastic)

In a number of these books I can see the different readings but am unsure as to when each should be used. The thing I liked about ‘Reading Japanese’ was I could see a pattern with the readings (when each one would be employed). I’m not sure if this ‘ease’ is a false confidence on my part and that the rest of the book wouldn’t follow such straightforward ways of reading all words. However, this is the first book I had where I could follow the kanji, practice writing and actually read around 20 words/phrases per kanji. Sadly, though I’m now a bit wary as all readings don’t seem to accompany each kanji and I’m at a loss! I was really enjoying the book too. Doing drill exercise or mnemoics doesn't keep me enthusiastic, I suppose I just need a balance and feel as though I'm progressing.

Barbara

[Javizy]

What are the readings?

When do I use them?

I think the simple approach to answering these questions is vocabulary. Take the character 上 and look at some words that contain it.

上 うえ up
上げる あ・げる to raise
上書き うわ・がき overwrite
上達 じょう・たつ advance
上海 しゃん・はい Shanghai

Memorise those five words and then tell me five readings of 上 and when to use them The last one really illustrates the effectiveness of doing this, because it's the only time you'll see 上 read as しゃん, so why would you bother memorising しゃん outside of 上海？

As for patterns, there's one simple one that you need to know, and that's that 訓読み are be used in Japanese words, which typically are just an individual character like うえ or have おくりがな, like ～げる above, and 音読み will be used with Sino-Japanese (Chinese) words, which typically means 熟語 (kanji compounds), like the latter two above. The reason some characters have multiple 音読み is because of the different ways they were read in different eras in Chinese history. Another source of extra readings is 当て字, where characters are used for their meaning or reading to represent a pre-existing word, rather than being used to create a new one that makes use of standard readings.

That being said, there are many characters that have just one or two readings that are very easy to distinguish when you know the one simple rule I mentioned. 上 is probably one of the worst examples of this sort of thing, along with many other common kanji because they've come to be used in so many different words.

[j_bertoni2279]

There's Heisig's volume 2, which I used, and Anki decks for it. I think it's okay, but something like the Anki Core2000 might be more useful.

[Spiderwick]

I think the simple approach to answering these questions is vocabulary.

I understand what you mean about this and I'm going to try to make it the way to continue my studies. I've just checked my 'Reading Japanese' and it was published in 1976 - so I think it is the book you don't like. What is it about it? Is it limited in someway? I really want to get better at Japanese - it feels like I've been stuck using kana for ages with some awareness of how to read kanji just by repeatedly seeing/using specific words (be that in textbooks, reading books or Japanese letters from friends). This is why I now understand your point in your message - a total submersion in the language? I'm going to try some kind of routine where I practise writing and reading; to strengthen my knowledge and to make sure I stay enthusiastic

[Spiderwick]

There's Heisig's volume 2, which I used, and Anki decks for it. I think it's okay, but something like the Anki Core2000 might be more useful.

I'm going to try to have a greater balance in learning kanji; it seems to be the areaI have most trouble and yet make limited progress - I know a number of characters but am completely stuck when faced by anything new!

[j_bertoni2279]

Yes, that book is out of date, and I didn't think it was very effective. It's been too long for me to remember the details. You'll need to use flash cards or some computer equivalent, in any case. Well, that's my opinion. Good luck!