～～ですと、～～

[reverser]

Hello all,

Thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give me. I am trying to get a grasp of the appropriate use of the construct in the subject line. It is my understanding that can be used to indicate a conditional clause. I do understand from my reading that there are limitations on exactly how this construction can be use (i.e. what the clause it is attached to can consist of) and that is the subject of this query.

I understand that the following clause is legitimate and grammatically correct (please correct if I'm wrong)

暇ですと、一緒に行きませんか？
Hima desu to, issho ni ikimasen ka?
If there is free time, won't you come with me / us?

Again, my question relates to those places where it is OK to use this construct, and those places where it is not. I roughly recall it cannot be used to indicate a desire, a statement of volition, and some other cases that I can't recall.

Thank you for your insight.

よろしくお願い致します。

マイク

[jazzbeans]

I am not at all familiar with ですと, I'm afraid! So, I'm sorry to be no use to you in that sense!

However, for alternative things you can say instead... I thought I'd pass on the knowledge that I have seen "暇だったら" for 'If you're free'' and "暇あったら" for "If you have the spare time" if that's of any use for you to know! - Whereas I've never seen ですと in this context, although I can't really say I've seen ですと in any such context as you describe yet!

Really sorry if that doesn't help you in any way though, x.

I hope someone can offer some insight soon!

[taikutsu]

If I'm not mistaken, you can't use this as ですと, it has to be だと whether the sentence is "polite" or not. It means something is a definite consequence. Beyond that, it's just something you'll have to get a feel for to know when it sounds right.

[plevanto]

Hello,

It has to be "hima da to..." since when using particles like this you have to use the plain form. as a general rule, the desu-stem usually comes only at the end of the sentence.

About the usage:

verb X ... to ... Y means indeed and "if ... then" type of pattern. However the "to" version is only used if there is a causal and inevitable relation between the to things. Meaning that if x happens it is certain and inevitable that y will happen.

For example:
Yuki ga furu to samui. (when it snows, it IS cold, always.)

In situations where the causality is not that strong, it´s much better to use -reba or -tara forms of verbs to express "if ... then" relations.

Ame ga futtara, kasa wo motte itta hou ga ii. (If it should happen that it rains, it´s best to take an umbrella - but you don´t HAVE to).

Hope this helps,

pessi
Helsinki, Finland

[reverser]

Thanks all for your replies. I have since located the original source and the advice given by the helpful jpod community is correct. It can't be used in "desu to" form, only "da to". The conjugation of the following clause is what determines politeness level.

Furthermore, it is not appropriate here, because as is also mentioned, the relation has to be inevitable (i.e. If/When it snows, it is cold. [there is no other possibility]) Thanks to those who took the time to answer. Also worth pointing out is that verbs used with this construct are in the plain / non-past form:

Yuki ga furu to, samui desu.
If/When snow falls, it is cold.

Haru ga kuru to, hana ga saku.
If/When spring comes, the flowers bloom / will bloom.

Hope this is useful to someone and sorry for the confusion.

マイク