'Reading' Kanji

[jbraswell]

Anki does rule.

Whatever works is what you should do, of course, but I have my doubts a book could be that useful. Among other things, according to one of the Amazon reviews, it only contains 425 kanji? Being familiar with only that many kanji won't even get you through a grade school book so how can you be reading "real" Japanese with that book?

[Yamanchu]

jbraswell, anki might rule if you have the time to sit in front of a computer and study. I don't as I previously said. If you haven't used this book, as you obviously haven't, how can you knock it? And yes, it only has 425 odd kanji, don't we all have to start somewhere, or did you learn all 2000+ odd kanji at once?

PS: I also thought a book wouldn't be good for kanji until I stumbled upon this book, but it does work.

[QuackingShoe]

Wasn't a big fan of that book, personally. Couldn't well remember the kanji I saw in there. I mean, it was alright, but it was mostly slow, boring, organized randomly (as far as progression), and was just a struggle to move through. Not something I'd use when the alternative of going through Heisig and then learning readings from context exists.

(I don't use flashcards anymore, for learning readings or anything else - they're definitely a requisite for doing Heisig though)

[Yamanchu]

Quacking, we'll have to agree to disagree then. Because everything I've seen so far is in context. The organisation also seems pretty straight forward and quite reasonable to me. Glad you liked Heisig, I thought it was rather wishy washy.

[Javizy]

You could slag Heisig for a lot of reasons, but the book is complete (2042 kanji + giving you the ability to go on from there), and you can easily set goals to finish it in whatever timeframe you want. I doubt many people who have done it enjoyed it, and it was definitely a massive relief for me to finish it. The advantages are obvious. I'm not limited to 20% of the language, I'm limited by the language I know. It's not about learning to read, it's about learning to read better.

[Yamanchu]

Who said I was slagging Heisig? I didn't like it, some people do. What I'm doing now is learning to read better, no difference eh?

[jbraswell]

Whatever works for you, man. I've no need for the book now, but I'm glad it helped you.

Out of curiosity, though, in your opinion, why is the book less time consuming than Anki? I mean, if you used the book, you had to have some time, no? Did you not want to use any kind of mobile device to study or something?

Also, Javizy, for various reasons, I chose not to use Heisig to learn kanji, but back when I was deciding whether or not to use it, one thing stuck out as extremely annoying to me. If I remember correctly, it looked as if Heisig's books only contained a small number of mnemonic "stories," leaving the reader to make up the bulk of them on his or her own. Is this the case? If so, is there a set repository of stories for the remaining kanji or something? Again, I've no need for it now, but I'm just curious.

[Yamanchu]

jbraswell, probably not the best study techniques around, but I have two jobs, and most of my study time is either listening to Jpod101, talking to my wife and child, or reading on breaks at work or on the train on the way to work.

I don't have an iphone, etc. to take with me to use flash cards, so while I have this book, I can just drag it out when I have 5 minutes and continue on. Every new kanji learnt in the book has examples and new vocab, then sentences, in context, all building upon what's been previously learnt. At the end of every chapter is one or more large reading section, again reinforcing and building on what's been studied.

Most of my new vocab and sentence structure, grammar etc. is through Jpod, but for learning kanji and reading, I find this book invaluable. If I had an iphone or something like that, I'd use anki, but until I finish this book and am up-to-date with all the jpod lessons, I already have so much I can do that more is just over kill.

[Javizy]

Also, Javizy, for various reasons, I chose not to use Heisig to learn kanji, but back when I was deciding whether or not to use it, one thing stuck out as extremely annoying to me. If I remember correctly, it looked as if Heisig's books only contained a small number of mnemonic "stories," leaving the reader to make up the bulk of them on his or her own. Is this the case? If so, is there a set repository of stories for the remaining kanji or something? Again, I've no need for it now, but I'm just curious.

There're a bunch on that koohii website, but personally I think they need to be personal to work best. If you had trouble with Heisig's ones it's probably because a lot of them are pretty crap. For example. rather than using the sun for 日, I found pac-man fitted into the more complicated images/stories much better. The technique really relies on your own imagination, so it's best to use it from the start I found. I'm just glad not to be counting how many kanji I have left to learn anymore!

Yamanchu, iPhones are expensive but maybe you could consider forking out for an iPod touch? The 8GB one is relatively affordable. If you don't have an electronic dictionary, it pays for itself before you even start using flashcards or whatever else. I've had mine for a year now and I dunno how I lived without it. Really great value when I think about it.

[Yamanchu]

Javizy, later down the track, that's the plan, but at the moment I have so much material to work my way through that to buy anything right now is just overkill.
What flashcard programs are best for the itouch?

[jbraswell]

[quote="Javizy" I'm just glad not to be counting how many kanji I have left to learn anymore![/quote]

Yes, that is indeed a huge weight off one's shoulders. That is one part of the Heisig "philosophy" that I agree with: don't spend year dragging out the kanji. Turn your life over to kanji for a while and just get it done.

Of course, I still have more to go to a legit Japanese speaker/reader. Right now I'm trying to decide whether it's worth to finish out the Jinmeiyou list and memorize a bunch of common names. We'll see.

[QuackingShoe]

I've successfully managed to not care at all how people's names are read before being told. Generally speaking, in fiction, the first time you see a person's name, it will tell you how to read it - and with real people, you can just ask. So, then it's a simple case of associating individuals with names and kanji rather than knowing how to read names in general.

And of course, with time, you start picking up the ability to read new names anyway.



I think it's obvious I'm a follower of a rather 'no-study' study method...