'Reading' Kanji

[Spiderwick]

Apologies if this is really stupid but if I am faced with, for example, 上がる　how do I know if this is 'あがる or　おぼがる. Now maybe のぼがる doesn't exist, but that's not my point. What I really want to know is, if I am faced with this word for the first time are there are some cues which determine the reading/pronunication? (The counting system is another example of multiple readings that taxes my brain).

Another book I've just started using is 'Kanji in Mangaland'. It's a nice book and whilst I can read the kanji I think it's because I know the word rather than figuring out which reading to apply and when. So is that it. Do I have to know the word (therefore, the kana) before I can figure out the reading? Is there no way I can figure out the reading just by looking at it alone? I'd imagine if it was in a certain context I may be able to figure it out, but what if it stands alone? As you can tell I'm really having problems with kanji. I've been working on and off for ages now, using many books, and I always hit a brick wall when I try to figure this out. I do use a great deal of kanji when I write letters as I know the words but I'm still not happy when I try to figure out the system - is there a system?
help!

[Yamanchu]

Hi Spider, you need to read the word in context. That's it, otherwise you don't know.

A book I've found brilliant for learning kanji is 'Reading Japanese'. An older book, but is brilliant for learning kanji.

Cheers,
Yamanchu

[Spiderwick]

Thank you for that! Could I just ask, is this the book you mean?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Reading-Japanes ... 256&sr=1-2

It's just there were a few books at Amazon that came up for 'Reading Japanese' and I just want to make sure I get the right one

Thanks again

[Yamanchu]

Hi Spider, that's the book. It's absolutely brilliant. Is also very good for revision on the hiragana and katakana before you get into the kanji. If you get it, send me a pm and I'll explain what's worked best for me.

[Spiderwick]

I've just ordered the book! Thanks for letting me contact you when it arrives - I probably need all the help I can get
Barbara

[louis89]

What I really want to know is, if I am faced with this word for the first time are there are some cues which determine the reading/pronunication?

For kun readings, I don't think so. But for on readings you can often guess how it's read by what it's made out of. For example, 生, 性, 姓 and 星all have せい as a reading. The more kanji you're familiar with, the better you get at being able to do this.

[jbraswell]

Just my opinion, but I would just say to focus on memorizing words. Shitloads of them. As you learn more words, you brain will automatically start to abstract out the sounds of individual kanji.

[Javizy]

Yeah, learning in context is the way to go. Well organised flashcards will help you learn to read faster than any book.

[Yamanchu]

Sorry Javizy, have to disagree with you. You just need to find the right book.

[Javizy]

Using just vocabulary flashcards you can learn readings and meanings at the same time (I'm not sure if the book separates the process, but you'd hope not). If you do 10 new ones per day, you can learn 3,650 words a year. If you do 28, you can learn 10,220 a year. How many you learn depends on your own motivation and goals, but the method itself facilitates learning at a seriously rapid pace, which I can't imagine could be topped. How are you supposed to retain anything without flashcards in the first place? Since you have to use them anyway, why not just start with them instead of complicating the process?

[Yamanchu]

And before I found this book, I'd have agreed with you, because that's exactly what I did. Using this book, you can do exactly the same as what you just described, except that you are also reading 'real' Japanese, in context, not just looking at words on a flashcard.

Complicating things? Who's complicating things? I learn kanji so that I can read Japanese, which is exactly what I'm doing with this book, isn't that what it's all about?

[Javizy]

So you use SRS cards alongside the book? I'm a little confused. Surely you couldn't learn 10,000 words in a year just by reading a book by itself.

Personally, I have a definition and examples on my flashcards, since you can't really say you're learning the words if you don't know how to use them. The words come from books, manga, games, conversations, and a host of other areas I get exposure from. The flashcards teach me how to read, understand, use and write them. I'm just not sure where the book fits into this. What am I missing out on?

[Yamanchu]

I no longer use flashcards because I find this book better for learning. You have to find examples from areas you are exposed to. I don't need to go looking, the examples are in front of me in this book, simple.

You said: "The flashcards teach me how to read, understand, use and write them." This book does exactly the same.

PS: Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with flash cards, but to the extend that you can learn from this book, I find it better than using flash cards. Also not having an iphone or something of that nature, I can learn from this book where ever I am.

[Javizy]

I rely on anki more than my mind for remembering things. Isn't getting a variety of exposure better than confining yourself to a 30 year old textbook? I don't see taking real-world examples as a disadvantage. I don't see learning on my own terms a disadvantage either. I want to learn interesting and useful words that I've encountered and will most likely encounter again.

Have you finished the book already? Did you end up being able to read Japanese? It seems like you're really enthusiastic about what this book has taught you, but maybe you haven't thought too much about the long-term benefits. Review of any kind of study is essential, and you can't get more efficient review than SRS. I can't believe you gave up on it.

[Yamanchu]

I do get a variety of exposure, why do you think I'm on this site? Where did I say I only study from this book? I do a lot more than just study from this book, as I'm sure you do more than just study anki. I never said taking real world exposure was a disadvantage, nor studying on your own terms. You study on your terms, I study on mine.

I'm three quarters through the book, and yes, it has helped in my reading of Japanese considerably. And as for long term benefits, again, I'm reading Japanese, isn't that the objective here?

How do you study SRS? In front of a computer or an iphone like device I'm guessing. I don't have the luxury or the time to do that.

"We have used 'Reading Japanese' at Yale. . .
Our students learned to read fluently in a remarkably short time with a minimum of classroom attention, and actually showed a marked improvement in speaking the language too, as a result of the unusual design of the reading drills." Samuel Martin, Professor of Far Eastern Linguistics, Yale University.