About the pronoinciation in Japanese

[yangmuye]

Hi everyone, it seams stupid but really troubles me. As lacking of voiced consonants in my first tongue Chinese, I can't make the proper pronunciation for them.

My problem is, when I try to speak at the "normal" speed (more then 6 syllables per second, I think natives speak even more fast), I find it hard to produce a voiceless or voiced sound.

For example, the sentence あのかたは　どなたですか。Here are 11 syllables, the consonants are n k t w d n t d s and k. Most of them are alveolar consonants which twist my tongue and make me voice the た in どなたです（become どなダです）。

Another example, in いただきます。 what I say sounds いたラきます　or　いたナきます　or いたタきます， but not ダ。

For the word むらさき　I will say ムブラさき， the ブ is very short, but it is always there except with special care.

And for the が sound, someone told me only the aged pronounce nga for ga, but it really hard for me to pronounce ga, I used to use a non-nasal nga instead.

I get no idea how to correct this. And I would like to know how fast do natives usually speak? Can you always make a clear, articulate sound at that speed? Because you are familiar with Japanese, I suggest you to make some nonsense words while recording, then listen to you own voice.

The vowel also get me confused. The so-called long vowel ei, is really pronounced エイ。Am I right? Sometimes it's also a "ay" like "day". I think エー(ee) is just a relaxed form of the pattern えい.

Do you have any suggestion?

[mieth]

you said your first language is Chinese. Your English is also at a native or near level I am assuming. From your writing everything looked ok to me. So how is your English accent and pronunciation? Why would you do anything differently then when you were learning English than when you are learning Japanese? Lots of listening. Lots of repeating. Rinse, repeat. I guess what I am saying is that there really isnt anything special that you can do about it. Your accent will getter better naturally over time. If you hired a pronunciation coach I am sure you could speed up the process but... that is an investment decision you have you make. Good luck.

[julian_81015]

Hmm, I think pronouncing certain sounds right is something that will only come with time. Maybe I’m wrong. Personally I have allot of trouble hitting the correct pitch and tone with certain words (often I can’t even hear the difference easily when someone points out my errors) but I’ve come to think of it as “one of those things” that will hopefully just work itself out.

[yangmuye]

Thanks for your reply.

you said your first language is Chinese. Your English is also at a native or near level I am assuming.

My English is just so-so. And my spoken English is just something "English like".

From your writing everything looked ok to me.

"looked ok" means?

So how is your English accent and pronunciation? Why would you do anything differently then when you were learning English than when you are learning Japanese? Lots of listening. Lots of repeating. Rinse, repeat. I guess what I am saying is that there really isnt anything special that you can do about it. Your accent will getter better naturally over time. If you hired a pronunciation coach I am sure you could speed up the process but... that is an investment decision you have you make. Good luck.

Well, I found no difficulty in pronunciation when I studied English. Every sound is clear. The speed is identical to Chinese. The vowels and consonants are similar to Mandarin and Cantonese. Japanese is great different. The speed is so high.
I know when speaking English fast some vowels are merged to a schwa and some consonants become softer, some consonants are dropped, d and t are changed into a Japanese ラ which will voice the voiceless consonant [t]. But it's easy to learn. And even though the sound changed, the new sound is still clear enough for me to imitate. Actually I mastered this naturally without taking any specially practice. Because it the natural way to speak than the "machine-like sounds combination".

I believe such things also exist in Japanese. But it's too fast. I am not sure if my hearing is right. I have practiced for a long time, still feeling hard to imitate. And I wonder if native speaker can still keep the difference between d/t,b/p,g/k when they are speaking fast. I think sometimes Japanese d and t sound identical. Especially for female speakers, their [t](non-aspirated t as in English word "stand") may represent ether a "d" or a "t".
Anyway, lacking of voiced consonant in my mother tongue, I not sure if my ear is reliable. I clipped the audio and listened again and again, only to find no difference.
I don't know what's you first tongue. If both voiced and voiceless stops exits in you language, you may think it's not a problem. Because both you and Japanese follow the same way speaking, ether articulately or inarticulately.

Regards,
Muye