Trade offs in learning more than one language

[untmdsprt]

I saw a video on youtube about bilingual babies the other night. The viewers were posting comments on how they know 3 or 4 languages. Judging by their spelling and grammar, it seemed like English was their 2nd language. It was close to perfect, but if they had taken the time to proofread, then it would have been.

My question is, what is the point of claiming to know all these languages when you wonder how long it will take someone to actually be fluent in those languages? I could claim to know English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, German, French, and Spanish. But the reality of it is, I only know English, beginning Japanese, and a few words here and there for the rest. My next language would be either Korean or Chinese, but when should I start? When I'm fluent in Japanese? Now?

[Belton]

I'm not sure that's English on You Tube, maybe Internetese for illiterate 6 year olds usually.

Well, knowing a language isn't a yes/no proposition. A person's knowledge and ability in a language is on a scale from a few words to native ability.
Bilingual I would see as having near-native / native ability in 2 languages. Usually from having parents from two cultures.
Multi-linguistic where you learn several languages would need extra clarification to say how proficient you might be, but I think you'd need to feel you have enough to get by and have conversations in order to claim an ability in a language.

It is easier to learn extra languages the more languages you learn. Either by learning languages in families or just by having knowledge and experience of learning languages. You do have to keep using languages or they start to get rusty if not disappear.

As you no doubt know, learning a language requires high motivation and a need to use the language. So for you, Japanese is a priority so you can function properly in Japan.

If you are going to start Chinese or Korean I would think you'd have to have an immediate need for those languages. And the spare time to learn them.

I'm not sure how much learning several languages at once interferes with each other. I learnt 3 languages at school at one time, not that I could claim any great ability in any of them. I find now that my only strong motivation is in Japanese. I also find that when I try to think of something in French or Irish a lot of my vocabulary has been replaced by Japanese words!

[untmdsprt]

Yes, being in Japan is a high motivation to learn Japanese, but so is everyone telling me it's too difficult for me to learn. Never tell someone like me that I can't do it, because I will certainly prove them wrong!

I've started learning Korean now. I met Hyunwoo while he was here, and he told me about the language. He said they combine the characters like you do in English, and the grammar is similar to Japanese. I told him it sounds like Korean would be easy for me then. For right now, I'm learning the sounds, and all 40 characters before I even start listening to the podcasts for vocabulary.

You're right about motivation. I see no motivation in the students I have to teach. They treat English as they do math, something they have to learn with no real benefit to them in the long run. Those students will be easy to talk to in Japanese. My gain is their loss.

[Sp3ctre18]

Heh, yeah, Hangul looks like it uses ideograms like Chinese / Kanji, but it's really an alphabet!! They just put words together in a more compact form - unlike us stupid westerners who use one space per character with Latin alphabet; such a waste of space!

Language proficiency, level of being bilingual / multilingual, interference between languages, etc., is nothing clear cut and simply depends on how much each person has done , what their circumstances were, etc.

I started out bilingual. I was born and raised here in the United States, but my parents are from Central America, so I learned both English and Spanish together, growing up, at the same time. Still, english is language No. 1, and Spanish is like my 1.5 because I'm simply more exposed to english, despite always talking spanish in the house. My classic example is, I don't know what the word for "anvil" is in spanish. I knew it in english from cartoons, TV shows showing metal-working, orchestral, but when would "anvil" come up in family conversations? like never! I've looked it up like 4 times and I keep forgetting though.

my mother also always exposed me to French with french kids shows off educational channels, french cartoons, etc., so it was the natural choice for my third language. The exposure over the years means i'm very familiar with how French sounds so I'm usually one of the best in class when it comes to pronunciation - when I mess it's because i'm having a hard time keeping the good pronunciation while trying to keep the sentence flowing smoothly. However, the more advanced conjugations still throw me off, and my vocab is limited, so although I can read French and understand it pretty well, i'm not fluent, and I need some time listening before I can understand the spoken language better.

The only confusion I've had between the languages is wen a word is similar in all three languages, but French has a subtle difference. ie, the word Practice. In Spanish: Practica. In French: Pratique. THERE'S NO "C" BEFORE THE LETTER "T"!!

For my 4th language, I wanted to go to a different family, so I didn't want Germanic or Romance languages anymore. I was considering Hindi or other Indian language, or Japanese, because I wanted a new writing system. I wasn't going to start soon though; I wanted to become more fluent in french first.

But then I found Japanesepod101. Add that to my watching subbed anime, and I couldn't pass this up, so I guess i'm learning Japanese now.

I could point out though, although for some reason I can't think of the exact circumstances right now, there are certain situations or kind of days I have that gets me feeling weird and my mind goes into scrambled multilanguage mode.... I start thinking things in english, spanish, french, japanese, and any other random words and phrases i know of other languages. I THINK it's when i've been working too much on the writing system for language i'm making up myself for my scifi (which is, one of the other motivations for learning more languages.)

[untmdsprt]

I hope you don't get into multilanguage mode when talking with others. That would make for a weird conversation!!

I guess you could do that with Hyunwoo. He knows about 4 or 5 languages.


My boyfriend and I have started doing the English and Japanese at the same time. It's fine with just us, but people around us look at us weird. I guess we do it because he'll forget the English words, and I'm still learning Japanese.

Does your brain ever hurt from all this?

[Sp3ctre18]

I hope you don't get into multilanguage mode when talking with others. That would make for a weird conversation!!

haha, I allow it a bit with friends, being silly. I tend to get weird looks or "gesundheit" though.

I guess you could do that with Hyunwoo. He knows about 4 or 5 languages.

Hope to hear from him; I wonder which ones.

Hey, english and japanese at same time is great. Practice is what is important, keeping it up!

Since I haven't yet gotten around to more actively practice french, I try to think more of my thoughts in french, or think about french translation for things. Even with Japanese, if I say thank you, i'm thinking about which way I'd say thank you in Japanese, and the applicable politeness level.

Does your brain ever hurt from all this?

Nah, only if it's homework I'm frustrated with. Otherwise, keeping a positive attitude, doing what I can, and realizing how even tiny practice (like thoughts) help, keeps me going.


Since the mention came up about the possibility of mixing up languages, I should point out, I just started Japanese like a month ago with JP101, but I just might start Hindi as well!!

Soon I'll start working at an IT Helpdesk at my college campus, and since many there are Indians who cam to study here last year.... I might as well learn some. This is a point where there's a risk, if you're try to do two languages at the same time and you've just started... I'm curious to see if I'll be able to deal with it, or I'll get mixed up and have to stop Hindi. I'm expecting the writing system to help. As if Hiragana and Katakana weren't enough, now I'm learning Devanagri, so that should help keep the two separate since I'll picture them written differently.

[mslozada]

My question is, what is the point of claiming to know all these languages when you wonder how long it will take someone to actually be fluent in those languages? I could claim to know English, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, German, French, and Spanish. But the reality of it is, I only know English, beginning Japanese, and a few words here and there for the rest. My next language would be either Korean or Chinese, but when should I start? When I'm fluent in Japanese? Now?

I know exactly 7 languages and now moving to language No. 8
I'm not crazy and it's not like I only know a few words, here and there.

Here is a sample of my daily life, the level of my languages and yes, I took the test and recieved certificates which are acknowledge world wide :
C2 - I speak '' cebuano '' with my family. (Philippine dialekt and my mother language)
A1 - I learn '' french '' in school.
C1 - I speak '' german '' at work.
B2 - I use '' swiss german '' during my free time.
C1 - I hear '' english '' through CNN.
B1 - I read '' tagalog '' on the Internet.
B2 - I learn '' japanese '' for fun.

Yes, I am living in Switzerland and learning languages is my hobby.
Do I ever get some headaches? No, because I am used to it.

When is the best time to start learning a new language?
Learning a new language takes a hell lot of time, effort and is quite expensive. If you have the time, then start RIGHT AWAY.
Why?
This is something you have to try and find out yourself.

I spend at least 3 hours of my free time '' EVERYDAY '' just for this hobby. The total money I have spent in over 7 years just to get 4 languages in my head is about 40,000 US dollars. 20,000 $ alone for 日本語 plus Homestay programs 2x.

The message I want to send to all people reading this is, learning a new language may take a '' LIFETIME '', because you will be switching between the languages you already speak and you are trying to speak over a million times again and again and again. You must do this WILLINGLY and not by FORCE (addiction, jealous, proud, etc.) or you might just end up as a NEWBIE and will always be a NEWBIE.

Cheers

PS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Eur ... _Languages

The Common European Framework divides learners into three broad divisions which can be divided into six levels:

A Basic User
A1 Breakthrough
A2 Waystage
B Independent User
B1 Threshold
B2 Vantage
C Proficient User
C1 Effective Operational Proficiency
C2 Mastery
The CEFR describes what a learner is supposed to be able to do in reading, listening, speaking and writing at each level.