より vs particle+より

[jbraswell]

Typically, when I see より in a comparative context, I assume the noun or phrase preceding it is less of whatever feature or attribute is being talked about. However, I've run across a few sentences that suggest that particle+より means the opposite. Is this correct?

For example, a sentence from wwwjdic,

都市部のほうにより多くの人が住んでいる。
There are more people living in towns and cities.

seems to read this way.

Additionally, here's a sentence from one of my text books:

しかし、少なくとも現代の日本社会では、公的に表明された「性関係」（独身であるか配偶者をもつかに関わらず）と一致しない「性関係」に対する社会的制裁は、女性により強く加えられる。即ち、女性の「性関係」に対して人々の好奇心はより強く働くのである。

In the above, the sentence is surely saying that restraints are more strongly placed on women, and that people are *more* curious about women's 'sexual relationships'.

Any help understanding より better would be greatly appreciated.

[QuackingShoe]

より doesn't have to actually have anything before it to function in the same way. You can just say something is "more" without specifying what it's more than (as you can in English). In other words, you can say より多くの人が住んでいる and it simply means "A lot more people live." The に isn't related to the より here, it's marking where the people live, which is 都市部のほう (and remember that ほう is also part of the comparative process). So a lot more people live in urban areas, compared to elsewhere.

The same thing is going on in the other examples, I believe. Note that in the first bolded area, に needs to be used after 女性 simply to function grammatically with 加えられる. The より is unrelated. Similarly, は in the second example is just marking 好奇心 as the topic and does not relate to より.

None of this is to be confused with the actual grammar item により, which does mean something else. Something like according to, by means of, etc.

Someone please correct me if I've made a mistake.

[jbraswell]

Okay, that sort of makes more sense, I think...The より is just thrown into the mix without being attached to anything, so the thing that is "less than" is just implied.

Thanks for the help. Looking back, it seems obvious how to interpret it.

Argh, curse you, Japanese. (Not really.)

[Jessi]

より paired with an adjective can also have the meaning of "even more" in English. For example 楽しくなる means that something becomes fun (it wasn't before), while より楽しくなる means that something becomes even more fun (it was already fun to begin with).

And QuackingShoe I think your explanation is spot on!

[Bucko]

Typically, when I see より in a comparative context, I assume the noun or phrase preceding it is less of whatever feature or attribute is being talked about.

しかし、少なくとも現代の日本社会では、公的に表明された「性関係」（独身であるか配偶者をもつかに関わらず）と一致しない「性関係」に対する社会的制裁は、女性により強く加えられる。即ち、女性の「性関係」に対して人々の好奇心はより強く働くのである。

Any help understanding より better would be greatly appreciated.

You're confusing two different よりs. One より, typically the first one you learn, means "over", the other means "due to" or "according to" and comes from the verb よる, and you will also see it as によると or によって

寿司のほうがパンより好きです = I like sushi over bread
彼により明日は暑くなる = according to him tomorrow will be hot
この暑さにより彼は死んでしまった = he died due to the heat
This により can also be written as:
によると or によって or によりますと
Have a look in the Japanese news, you'll often see 警察によりますと according to the police

One more use...at the end of a letter you might see ジョンより meaning "from John".

[Javizy]

によって can be used to mean 'depending on, according to (a given variable, not a source)',　for the cause of something, as the agent in passive sentences, and in place of で when saying 'by doing X...'.

天気によって、行かないかもしれない。
I might not go, depending on the weather.
時代によってファッションが変わる。
Fashion changes according to the times.
交通事故によって母を亡くした。
I lost my mother to a traffic accident.
MyWordsというアプリはJPodによって１２月１１日発売された。
The application 'MyWords' was released by JPod on 12ｔｈ December.
Heisigを使うことによって漢字をはやく習うことができる。
By using Heisig, you can quickly learn kanji.

により isn't interchangeable for all cases, and the rules get a little tricky, so you might want to consult something a bit more reliable than me . It's only ever used in written Japanese, as well, so it sounds pretty strange in spoken Japanese, unless it's a highly formal situation.

によると is the same as によれば, and marks the source of some information. It means 'according to (source X)'. You generally add something like そうだ、らしい、という at the end of the sentence, unless it's purely factual, like 'according to the law'.

I think I'll use Quack's 'somebody please correct me if I'm wrong' line as well, since this is one of the more complicated pieces of grammar I've come across