Where to go after RTK1?

[rpgherogaz]

I had a scimm through RTK2 and it does not make any sence to me.

Yes, it gives you 1 example of how the kanji can be used but 1 example is not enough is it?!?

It gives you an "on" reading to, which is fine, but the kun readings seem a bit nebulous to me.

Once you have finished RTK1 which is the best way to go about learning to many differnt readings? Just knowning a key word is really not enough, and some of them are not the primary meaning of the kanji anyway....

Is there a better book?? Or something else which explain how the kanji is used to structure the words etc. I know this site is very good for that, but is there another source?


Or am i being silly and RTK2 is the best way to go?

Thanks,
Gareth

[Javizy]

I never used RTK2 myself, so I don't really have an opinion of it. I think Psy gave it a go before, so maybe he can tell you more.

What I did originally after, and even before, finishing RTK1 was reading the PDF's, using the kana transcript to look up readings, reading children's books, and manga with furigana. After a bit of review readings would sink in, but with any sort of reading like this, you end up going through an entire passage just to review one kanji you couldn't remember, and reviews are very hard to organise, and grow extremely boring very quickly.

I think undoubtedly the most efficient way to organise your reviews is by using an SRS application. For a given PDF, there might be 20 kanji words you know inside out, 6 that you struggle with, and 4 that you don't know. If these were SRS flash cards, the easy words would be pushed back 7-9 days, the difficult words 1-3 days, and the unknowns 10-minutes. This makes reviewing much more efficient, and allows you to focus on your weak points. The spacing interval gradually gets longer at a rate your memory can handle, so eventually you remember them for good.

Personally, I use Anki. I think the best thing to do is make your own deck of example sentences, with words you want to learn at a pace you can handle. Although, trying to get a good representation of all the kanji you know, with both sets of readings, is probably the most efficient way to learn to read.

There's also a popular web app named iKnow, which incorporates comprehension questions into the review process. I only used it briefly, and I'm not sure if the spacing algorithm is like Anki or not (this is top priority for me). I like to do at least 40 new cards a day, and end up with around 150-200 cards to review. This takes around 15-20 minutes, but it took me around 5 minutes to do 10 words with iKnow, so I don't think it's the best option for bulk learning. However, assuming the spacing algorithm is decent, it will help your active memory, which will help your speaking and writing, more than Anki does, so ultimately it's going to depend on what you want to get out of your reviews. I'd suggest giving both a try and making up your own mind.

[rpgherogaz]

i have anki, i use it for RTK1 at the moment.

So i should get hold some of manga with furigana and use my genki books and the kanji here and make my own anki deck with all the information embedded? That sounds much more worthwhile than the RTK2 book, which i dont think is the method for me.


Thank you very much!

p.s. Any idea were i can get a hold of some manga with furigana or some other matieral online? Thanks

[Javizy]

You make a recognition-only deck, with a format similar to below. As long as you pull the sentences from real Japanese, it's up to you what you add. It's important to base the card around one word/element. If you have 5 words you don't know, you have to remember them all to mark the card as correct, which can make the SRS less effective.

Manga with furigana, textbooks, and the PDFs are great sources because you don't have to worry about looking up the words with a kanji dictionary. If you're studying a JPod lesson, try copying the sentence(s) containing the grammar point and vocabulary, likewise with your textbooks.

Question
そう簡単に言うなよ。

Reading
そうかんたんにいうなよ。

Answer Version 1
簡単
simple

Answer Version 2
It's not that simple! (lit: don't say things so simply)
簡単
simple

Answer Version 3
簡単
（形動）[文]ナリ
(1)物事が単純で、理解や扱いが容易であるさま。
「―な機械」「―な問題」「―明瞭」
(2)時間や手数のかからないさま。てがる。
「昼食を―に済ます」「彼は―に承知してくれた」
〔幕末から用いられた語。はじめは多く「簡短」が用いられた〕
［派生］ ――さ(名)

You should have the answer part as you feel comfortable. Some people have a translation of the sentence, while others copy the definition from a 国語 dictionary, but that's not easy if you're still around beginner level. You might find a combination is most effective. It's important not to think in terms of English, but I find the example sentences themselves, and the right mentality, help with this.

If you haven't read any Manga before, then Doraemon might be a good starting point. Despite the wacky premise, there's lots of everyday language, the stories are nice and short, and a lot of cultural topics, like those covered in the blogs, tend to pop up. In fact, since every Japanese person knows who he is, you could say Doraemon is part of Japanese culture himself if you haven't read any real Japanese before (stuff not aimed at learners), you'll still find even kid's stuff difficult, but just stick with it and pick up what you can, while continuing to study your textbooks and lessons, and before long you'll be reading novels

[Javizy]

I kind of misread your Manga question. The only site I have used is Yes Asia, since it has free delivery to the UK. Everything seems to be really unorganised though, like it doesn't have all the original Doraemon series, and has three random volumes of Dragon Ball, which I don't understand.

If you're in the US, I've heard of Sasuga. There's also Amazon.jp, but they stopped doing standard delivery, so you have to pay for express, which given the current strength of the Yen is daylight robbery. Probably best to try Google, unless somebody else can recommend some good sites.

There's also a small selection in the iTunes Store under the book section of the App Store, if you have an iPod Touch/iPhone.

[rpgherogaz]

Thank you once again for your time, your always so helpful!

So I will have to find which answer version suits me best, the last one seems a little out of my grasp but thank you.

I will finish the RTK1 and get to work on the genki, JPOD and random sources i can find. I will have to look into techniques on how to make effective Anki decks!


Thanks!

[Psy]

I highly recommend studying the first 700 characters in RTK2-- the so-called pure and semi-pure 'signal primitives' are easy to learn and extremely useful. Picking them up here will save you the time of noticing the trends as you go along. Simply using these you'll find yourself able to parse (aloud) good portions of newspaper headlines. After the 700, however, the book tackles more irregular material, and memorization is much akin to cramming a vocabulary list. The chapters on 'everyday words' are worth a look, but beyond that you should either move to RTK3 or, preferably, devote all of your efforts to the language beyond the writing system.

Just my 2 cents.

[rpgherogaz]

aaaaa sou ka, thank you very much.

This is the kind of thing you need to be told about, things you can only learn from experiance!

So it seems my plans is as follows!

> Finish RTK1 (to be able to reconise the characters)
> First 700 and maybe everyday characters of RTK2 (for on and kun readings)
> Kanji de Manga (This book looks promising with good reviews)
> Kanji in Mangaland (also seems a nice method, seeing as getting hold of manga with furigana seems difficult for me)

Alongside this study, I'll be working on my grammar using the book reccomended to me before:


Genki 1 and 2
Japanese From Zero 1 to 3
A dictionary of basic Japanese Grammar (this took me a while to buy!)

TimWerX Website (it really is very good)

Im using JapanesePod and Primsleur for speaking and vocab


I have not managed to find a Japanese course around where I live (west midlands, England) It is a shame, so this is all self taught and for my own benefits, i wish to one day teach in Japan (hopefully in a JET program) So as for a time limit, there is not one yet

Any other tips and advice from you guys who have been there and done it, would be fantastic!

Thanks again minasan!

[wccrawford]

I kind of misread your Manga question. The only site I have used is Yes Asia, since it has free delivery to the UK. Everything seems to be really unorganised though, like it doesn't have all the original Doraemon series, and has three random volumes of Dragon Ball, which I don't understand.

If you're in the US, I've heard of Sasuga. There's also Amazon.jp, but they stopped doing standard delivery, so you have to pay for express, which given the current strength of the Yen is daylight robbery. Probably best to try Google, unless somebody else can recommend some good sites.

There's also a small selection in the iTunes Store under the book section of the App Store, if you have an iPod Touch/iPhone.

I use bk1.jp for all my orders. (I'm in the US.) Their shipping price is fair and most books are at least discounted a little. Amazon beats them on raw price, but Amazon's shipping is insane, even at the cheapest. I've found the 2 sites to be comparable in price when buying 10 or more Manga, though, as Amazon shipping seems to have a lot of overhead. (I haven't ordered from Amazon in about 6 months, and this may have changed.)

[Psy]

> First 700 and maybe everyday characters of RTK2 (for on and kun readings)

Just to clarify, RTK2 only teaches on readings, for there are patterns and consistencies (in the first 700 anyway) that one can follow. The vast majority of compound words (typically 2-kanji) use the on readings. In addition, the number of kanji with more than 2 on'yomi are comparatively rare-- typically it's the kun'yomi that is comprised of several (irregular) readings.