Is a denshi jisho a waste of money?

[Toby38]

I have looked at them at length, and even borrowed one for a few days and it seems almost useless for all but the most advanced learners of Japanese.

[Javizy]

If you're a beginner, you might as well get an iPod touch with the dictionary application called Japanese. It'll cost about the same, but you'll have all the extra iPod touch features as well (which comes with Japanese input out of the box ). That said, you don't really need to be at an advanced level to use the regular dictionaries, depending which when you get, of course.

[8gatsu3]

I have a similar recommendation- the "DS sononmama rakubiki jiten" is very good, if you want a DS or have one it is good value.
It's all Japanese but easy to use. It accepts English or Japanese input either by handwriting or by the on screen keyboard.
Good for general E-J/J-E dictionary, and for looking up kanji words when you have the reading or vice versa.

[b0ng0]

If you get an iPod, then you can get a really good dictionary called Kotoba (word). It even shows you the stroke order of the Kanji - and it's free!

[wccrawford]

If you have to look up every single word, a dictionary is going to be a major hassle.

If you're reading something that you understand half or more, a dictionary is a major help.

(though once you get to 90% or more, you're probably better off just learning from context, rather than looking it up.)

I recently bought a Canon V80 (from TheJapanShop.com, I love those guys) and I'm loving it.

[Javizy]

I recently bought a Canon V80 (from TheJapanShop.com, I love those guys) and I'm loving it.

Have you used this dictionary before? I got a version of it on my iPod for £5. I almost bought an electronic dictionary before, but I just couldn't bring myself to shell over £150+ for something that is just a dictionary. I was just wondering what a dictionary like yours has that alc doesn't, and can it justify the extra £145+? I ended up going with the iPod because all the extra features - Japanese and non-Japanese related - easily make it good value for money, and worth carrying around with me.

To the original poster, if you have the money for an electronic dictionary and don't want to buy one, I'd strongly consider the iPod touch/iPhone. These are some of the Japanese related features:

- type in Japanese, and Chinese-character handwriting mode (great for e-mailing if you have an iPhone or wireless network).
- use iEijiro/'Japanese' to look up words (eiwa + waei) and kanji, get example sentences, and make vocabulary lists.
- organise and listen to your JPod lessons, and other Japanese audio content (you can lookup words while listening).
- watch whatever Japanese TV shows/anime/films you can be bothered to convert to mp4.
- read the manga available in the iTunes store.
- use a flashcard application like iflipr (loads of premade decks available online).
- use the other Japanese applications like kanjiflip, tango town, etc, which will grow as time goes on.
- enjoy the awesome multi-touch interfaces, which are incredibly responsive and easy-to-use

Then, of course, you can use the iPod for what it was designed for; listening to music, watching videos, viewing pictures, using applications and playing games, etc. If you get an iPhone, then both sets of features expand quite a bit as well.

[wccrawford]

I recently bought a Canon V80 (from TheJapanShop.com, I love those guys) and I'm loving it.

Have you used this dictionary before? I got a version of it on my iPod for £5. I almost bought an electronic dictionary before, but I just couldn't bring myself to shell over £150+ for something that is just a dictionary. I was just wondering what a dictionary like yours has that alc doesn't, and can it justify the extra £145+? I ended up going with the iPod because all the extra features - Japanese and non-Japanese related - easily make it good value for money, and worth carrying around with me.

I haven't, but I can tell you 2 features I know it has right off the bat:

It's not (approx) 3" by 4" (including a keyboard) and it doesn't have the ability to draw the kanji for input. Also, I can't take it to the sub shop down the road.

Having tried to use that dictionary for a few minutes now, I can't figure out how to get it to translate from kana to english. Kanji to english, and english to Kanji is working fine.

It's really, really nice to be able to just tap out 'chikyuu' on the keyboard and find out that means 'Earth'. Or if there's no furigana, just draw the kanji and look it up that way.

When I get my Android phone at the end of the month, my attitude might change... But for now, it's very fast and very easy to use. I can't imagine even the new phone being better.

[Javizy]

It's not (approx) 3" by 4" (including a keyboard) and it doesn't have the ability to draw the kanji for input. Also, I can't take it to the sub shop down the road.

Having tried to use that dictionary for a few minutes now, I can't figure out how to get it to translate from kana to english. Kanji to english, and english to Kanji is working fine.

It's really, really nice to be able to just tap out 'chikyuu' on the keyboard and find out that means 'Earth'. Or if there's no furigana, just draw the kanji and look it up that way.

I meant I have eijiro (the dictionary used on the site I posted) on my iPod in the form of iEijiro, which is a fast and user-friendly offline application. iPhone/iPod touch comes with a large number of international keyboards as standard, including Japanese (kana and ascii), and Chinese-character handwriting, which is used for character recognition. You can switch through all the keyboards instantly by tapping the international symbol, so it's very easy to use, and means you'll never have to search with romaji. The touchscreen interface means you might get a bit of grease on it while eating your sub, though

If you did want to search with romaji, or want kana/romaji readings (although there was a nice option in the update to turn romaji readings off ), then the dictionary application called 'Japanese' would be more suitable (I have both this and iEijiro). You only get basic edict results though, e.g. souzou - imagination, guess, whereas iEijiro gives you a long list of usage examples, which is especially useful for words with multiple meanings. It does have a listing of over 12,000 kanji, most with stroke order animations, and a very user-friendly vocabulary list feature. There is a demo here, for anybody who's interested.

[wccrawford]

and means you'll never have to search with romaji.

Yeah, kana shows on the screen when I type 'chikyuu' on the keyboard, just like the IME in all major operating systems. There is also a kana-input way, but it involves tapping the same key multiple times, kind of like cellphone input.

And yes, I assumed you had it installed on your iPod from what you had said. As I don't have a $400 iPod/iPhone to install it on, it wasn't really an option for me to compare the 2.

If it'll do kana-only lookup on the iPod, there probably isn't a lot of bonuses to it rather than your iPod, other than that it doesn't take up your iPod battery to use it. That's my biggest complaint with stuff being on my phone. But being able to look things up in kana (or romaji) is extremely helpful when you just want a quick answer about a word.

[gerald_ford]

I did struggle with an electronic dictionary back in the day. Since then, I've found a good pocket dictionary (as in paper) works well if you guy the right ones. I used to own the Tuttle dictionary, which was pretty good, but the latest edition of the Langenscheidt (sp?) dictionary is very good, and easy to flip through. I also like the durable cover too. I'd save the money and just go with that.

Best of luck!

[jclemons]

It depends on your level really. If you're a beginner you may not even know how to turn on most electronic dictionary as they're intended for Japanese people.

I use a Sharp Papyrus series which includes a write-in box next to the keyboard.

If you go to a Japanese university one bought in Japan at an electronics store will be necessary.

I was taking accounting, economics, sociology, human resources management and international negotiation at a Japanese university. You'll use the Japanese -> Japanese because there are many words not translated yet.

[reboundstudent]

I would highly recommend trying to get an electronic dictionary from somewhere like EBay or Hard Off... overall, Japanese electronics are treated with great care, and if you don't have a stigma against used products, they're cheap as well!

I got the dictionary for my DS, largely because there are still a lot of kanji that I don't know that don't come with any kana beside them to look them up with. If you're in the States, you can order a DS dictionary from www.playasia.com.

A downside of the DS dictionary, though, from my experience, is that it looks very unprofessional. I certainly can't have it with me here in school (I'm teaching in a junior high), or if I were to go to a business meeting. A few months ago, we had a JET outing to a temple where the head monk of the shrine greeted us and gave a lecture. People whipped out their electronic dictionaries, since he was speaking in pretty complicated terms, but I couldn't pull out my DS without appearing rude or as if I was only playing games.

If you've got the money for it, I really encourage an iTouch. Those are much more discreet, and have tons of cool additional applications for Japanese learning.

[hajime]

I don't have an iTouch / iPhone so can't really compare, でも I would highly recommend starting with an electronic dictionary (of some sort) right off the bat. If you are intimidated by a Japanese interface (I was in the beginning), I recommend the Canon WordTank G55 since it has an excellent English interface for beginners. I've been carrying this around everywhere for 2 years and use it multiple times / day.

Some of the nice things about an electronic jisho:

1) Has an extensive phrase inventory. You not only get the word (and related words) but a few to several example phrases using that kanji / word.
2) Has a 日本語/日本語 dictionary built in, which you will use more and more often as a) you find things missing in the 日本語/英語 dictonary; and b) you want to improve your Japanese
3) the multi-character jump feature in the Canon Wordtank is simply awesome. You can start in English, find four different suggestions, highlight each one, hit ジャンプ (jump) and it will immediately go to the 日本語->英語 translation. You can continue to drill down and then hit 戻る (modoru, to return) successive times to return to where you started from.
4) you can hand this dictionary to anybody in Japan (in my experience) and have them help you during "communication problems". I do this a lot while in Japan. Another usage is to hear a word in a sentence you don't understand (always the key word to understanding what the heck they are talking about, of course) and you can sound it out to make sure you have it right, put it in, and oops, I got 5 hits back for that pronunciation. I just show it to them and they say the number of the right one and you then figure out what the heck they are trying to tell you.
5) Once you get the hang of it, it's very fast to use. I was trying to talk to a Taiwanese person in Hakone and we were both kind of struggling with vocabulary since beginning Japanese was our common language. He used some app on his iPhone and I used my WordTank. I was probably 4x faster than he was looking stuff up.

Overall, my biggest recommendation is "don't wait". The electronic dictionary (in some form) is such a huge asset when learning Japanese. I never go anywhere without it, even at home. I couldn't even imagine hauling around a paper dictionary in its place.

I bought my first Wordtank at Electronic Town in Akihabara, lost it in the U.S., and bought the second one from White Rabbit Press. I think the suggestion to look for one at Hard Off (if you are in Japan) is a great suggestion.

P.S. The main disadvantage of the Canon G55 is that it lacks stroke input for kanji. I miss that feature and why I am going to upgrade to one of the Casios that supports stylus input and the Halpern KLD add-in.

[wccrawford]

Overall, my biggest recommendation is "don't wait". The electronic dictionary (in some form) is such a huge asset when learning Japanese. I never go anywhere without it, even at home. I couldn't even imagine hauling around a paper dictionary in its place.

I think this is good advice. I waited quite a while before getting mine, but it has been really, really handy, even in America. If you are serious about reading manga without doing years of study first, it's a must.

[jclemons]

I had a Seiko SR-4000 I think it was. Really compact and handy. I always had it stuck in my back pocket when I first lived in Japan in Okinawa and Kyushu. The larger ones are hard to carry and whip out quickly so you may want to get a good compact one. Also getting one with a backlight is VERY helpful.