anouther kanji (heisig) question sorry!!

[rpgherogaz]

More confusion has set in.

I have started the first volume as you might be aware. And i get that the aim is so you can reconise a meaning (an english meaning) to a kanji and learn to write them properly.

I got to "sparkle" (very at the beginning) and thought i would check (using jpod101 vocab search) for sparkle to check that the kanji is used for it.

But it is a totally differnt kanji.

輝く かがやく kagayaku (v5k) to shine, to glitter, to sparkle, (P)
きらきら きらきら kirakira (adv,n,vs) glitter, sparkle, glisten, twinkle, (P)

ぴかぴか ぴかぴか pikapika (adj-na,adv-to,n) glitter, sparkle, (P)


I dont see the "three little suns" anywhere.

So are these Key-words always the meaning? or just a basic idea?

It seems alot of work for nothing if most of the kanji is associated to a english word that doesnt have anything to do with its meaning or how it is read.

Help!!

Thanks

[QuackingShoe]

Please search the forums on both this website and kanji.koohii.com for information as to the purpose of RTK. There are many threads about it. For instance, this one: http://forum.koohii.com/viewtopic.php?id=1958
(Also, the kanji.koohii.com site will be helpful anyway. It has a built-in SRS system, and is a community story-sharing project.)

[rpgherogaz]

thank you, I had not heard of this site.

It seems that RTK1 is just to reconise kanji from one anouther then and not to focus on the keywords to much.

Then 2 would be the readings i imagine, and then jsut looking them up from the lessons in JPOD or and newpapers etc!

Well that clears it up I think

I need to find out about this sentence mining, i heard it everywhere!

and then ask for some child books and everything

I will continue to increase my vocab and speaking! Not forgetting Kanji on the side!

Thank you again QS. Everything seems so strange to me at the moment, but your attension is really appriciated!

[WalterWills]

Sorry if this confuses you more, but please bear in mind that each Kanji often has more than one meaning, and these meanings tend to overlap when it comes to words..

For example, the kanji "方" has at least three meanings that I can think of off the top of my head: Person, Direction, Method. But if you look up "person", for example, in a dictionary, you'll probably see "人".

[rpgherogaz]

Sorry if this confuses you more, but please bear in mind that each Kanji often has more than one meaning, and these meanings tend to overlap when it comes to words..

For example, the kanji "方" has at least three meanings that I can think of off the top of my head: Person, Direction, Method. But if you look up "person", for example, in a dictionary, you'll probably see "人".

This is also anouther thing i picked up, that kanji is for hito? or Jin? (once again these are educated guesses that make sence, however wihout not being specifically taught it, becomes a nightmare)

日本人 means japanese person right? Japan - Person and is said Nohonjin (as apposed to how it could be read: nihonhito) and it isnt writen as 日本方

To be aware of all these inconsistances, do you simply accept as you learn it, dont ask questions and burn it into your mind? or is there a system or logic to work this out?

thank you again your the replies, I can not express how valuable it is to me.

Gareth

p.s: nihon could also mean 2 cylinderial objects can it not? HOW CONFUSING!

[QuackingShoe]

Right, it's to learn to recognize them and to write them (which is vital for recognition anyway).

You pretty much just accept it as you go. I wouldn't really think of them as inconsistencies though, just how things are - for one thing, it's just easier when you take that mindset. And Japanese is fairly consistent, really, as far as most things go. 人, pronounced as じん, is always used for nationalities, for instance. There aren't any random examples where they tack 方(as your example) or 者 or something on there. That's quite a bit more consistent than English already

にほん/nihon can mean two long cylindrical objects too, yes. Written differently, though.　二本. Which is 2 + counter for long cylindrical objects, so it makes sense. This will happen a lot. Some sound combinations are worse than others... XD

[rpgherogaz]

like nose and flower

that one made me chuckle!

But aparenlty the pitch is differnt. Where i can learn all about this, i do not know, but that is not important at the moment

Thank you again! so Kanji is used ot seperate words that are said the same! That is a no brainer really, but still usefull.

Learn as it comes. Best thing anyway has said if i am hoesnt. Thank you.

It seems jsut to take my time would be the best.

Reconise. Memorise, then learn the readings and meanings, look them up over time, gradually work my way through on the side while increaing my grammer and vocab elsewhere. That sounds realistic i hope, or am i dreaming >.<

[Taurus]

As others have already pointed out, Heisig's keywords are just associations for you to learn how to write, and recognise, the various kanji.

Once you've learnt how to recognise the kanji, you can then learn their readings and meanings as you learn new vocabulary. You might, for example, learn the word to run, which, in the polite form is 走ります, and is pronounced はしります. From that point on, you'll know that to write the word, you use the kanji associated with Heisig's keyword 'run', and when you see it written and want to read it, you'll know to pronounce it 'hashirimasu'.

Or, similarly, you might learn the word 願う、which means 'to wish' (which you might recognise from the phrase お願いします). It uses the kanji associated with Heisig's keyword for 'petition', and is pronounced ねがう ('negau').

Eventually, when you start to use these words more often, you'll probably even forget about Heisig's keywords altogether, and you'll just know which kanji to use, and how to read it.

I hope I haven't confused you further, but the key idea with Heisig is to use it to learn what the Kanji look like, and then you can associate the Kanji with Japanese words - their meanings and pronunciations - as you learn new words. In fact, Heisig's own suggestion is that you learn how to recognise all of the 2000 or so kanji that Japanese school-leavers know before you start studying Japanese. So you should probably try to forget about learning how to use Kanji until you've learnt to recognise the ones in Heisig's book.

[rpgherogaz]

Thank you very much!

This really is helping.

I will do it in the right order, reconise first then learn

then i have to keep an open mind and with practice and reading as much as I can, i should get which is used when!

I imagine that i could maybe get some anki cards that have sentences set in to "mine" them?

Which i think it just breaking it down and working it out getting it right and coming to it again later yes?

Well my confidence has come back a little now! and i am still enjoying this!!

mata ne
x

[Wanwo]

I've finished Heisig Vol 1 and are about to start on Vol 2.

All I can say is keep at it. It's well worth it.

I'm now studying a Japanese language course in Tokyo. Everyday we learn 4 new kanji. My fellow students are struggling to draw them, to get every line correct, but for me I can just write them out without hardly thinking about it. Whatsmore I know the basic meaning behind each one. Of course there's a few extra meanings but they are sometimes still related to the Heisig keyword so it's not too much of an effort learn them.

So some examples to explain what it's like once you know Heisig Vol 1:

store (588) = store or shop
store (588) + employee (56) = store employee or clerk

then sometimes it gets a little strange but still understandable:

book (211) + room (754) = bookshop

So why not book (211) + store (588)? I don't know but book+room = bookshop is still easy to remember.

Here's an example of what else can happen:

parent (1504) + cut (85) = kind

That's very strange. Why is it like that? I don't know. But if you know the keywords at least you have something to latch onto. You make up a little story. I always think that a parent is always kind so they won't cut you - thereby I connect all the parts and have no trouble remembering how to write 'kind'. My classmates are still wondering whether they should curve some stroke left or right.

Heisig - I like it.

[rpgherogaz]

aaa i see thank you very much and congratulations on completing it!


parent and cut... seems the opposite lol

i also noticed this with the kanji for sugoi (WOW AWSOME) which seems to have a negitive meaning?!? unless i am reading this wrong.

Arigatou, jaa mata

[Wanwo]

Yeah sugoi confuses me too. It means 'wonderful' but it also means 'awful'. I think it's meant to represents an extreme either way and which one is intended can be understood from the context.

BTW it took me about two years to finish Vol 1 because I kept stopping for a few months, forgetting things, and starting again. If I can be done with Vol 2 in a year I will be happy.

Japanese school children learn around 120 kanji a year so by Grade 6 they know 1000. Hopefully you can learn them faster than that.

[QuackingShoe]

It's really not that weird. In particular, 'terrific,' which comes from the same place as 'terror,' (and terrible), is really used both ways, though it's mostly used positively now - despite the origin. Awesome is pretty much the same thing too.

[alltom]

The definition we used in class for ものすごい was more along the lines of "staggering" or "earth-shattering," which are (relatively) neutral. If you tone them down, you probably approach the meaning of plain すごい.

[WalterWills]

Haha, he probably wanted to call me "sugoi", but once a Japanese friend called me "hideous"!!!