Kanji book

[Earl]

Recently i have been studying "Let's Learn Kanji" by Joyce Mitamura, having previously enjoyed her other books about kana. This book has been going fine for me however it is moving to slowly for me. I have learned countless radical after radical without actually learning any kanji so far. Anyway i have decided to stick it out and hopefully the knowledge required will pay its own dividends, however i am looking for another book to use in tandem where i could learn kanji that i could use right away. Suggestions?

[Taurus]

You could try Kanji de Manga, which introduces the kanji by JLPT level, one kanji to a page, each one accompanied by a stroke order, kunyomi and onyomi, and a short comic strip with an example of the kanji in use. Or maybe the Basic Kanji Book, which is more textbooky, with lots of drills and exercises.

My own recommendation would be Heisig, but it's a bit marmite, and it's not really going to help you use kanji right away (since the idea behind it is to learn to write a big long list of kanji before learning how they're used).

[wccrawford]

I use Remembering The Kanji. It teaches you the radicals as you need them and teaches you Kanji right away.

As for learning the radicals... Yeah, they'll pay off. Learning them all first is a bit of an odd idea, but I can see how it would work.

Edit: After trying RTK for a while, I decided it wasn't for me. I was using a game called 'Slime Forest Adventure' before it, and what I thought was success from RTK was actually just success from SFA. Once I got to stuff I didn't know, I didn't do so well. For many people, RTK works well... Just not for me.

[Belton]

I quite like Let's Learn Kanji.
(and it's better sequel Let's Learn More Kanji, where all this knowledge of radicals starts to come together; unfortunately out of print but if you can use google... )

It gives a very good overview of how kanji actually work especially when you want to start reading them in Japanese; it uses proper terms and proper explanations. Starting from learning the radicals is a valid approach, but it has been pointed out elsewhere that it's a largish task to undertake before learning kanji "proper". And the organisation of the kanji by stroke count isn't the best at all, I think they would have been better off organising them by radical or thematic group. (again book 2 is better, no idea why it went out of print).

For a more conventional kanji workbook Basic Kanji Book vol 1 by Chieko Kano et al. (Bonjinsha Co. Ltd.) book is better. It groups kanji by thematic groups that tend to run parallel to most Japanese courses. Common Verbs, Adjectives, daily items, etc.

Or for learning kanji in context by reading short passages I enjoyed this book when I did JLPT3
You'd need JLPT3 - ish knowledge of Japanese in terms of grammar and base spoken vocabulary to benefit from it though.

[Belton]

My own recommendation would be Heisig, but it's a bit marmite,

Don't you mean Natto! 笑

[Taurus]

Natto's delicious. It's just too slimy and smelly to eat, unless it's dried...

[Earl]

Thank you all for the replys. I have decided to go for basic kanji book v.1. It has a friendly title. I decided against heisig's book because i dont really like marmite . Whats Natto?

[Taurus]

Natto is like marmite, but different: it's fermented soy beans and it's sticky and slimy and smells of dirty feet, but tastes nice. It's so sticky that it requires a special technique to eat - you have to whirl your chopsticks round to get rid of the trails of slime. And it's so smelly that it requires a special constitution to eat. You can get a dried version, I think, but it's not slimy and smelly, just tasty.

[Tinkerbell]

For anyone interested in the "Let's learn more kanji" I have it in an e-book version. It requires a funky reader program, but you can get it for free online. It's great for printing out exercises^^,
I love "let's learn kanji", as I have always had trouble with the make up of kanji, and when I started to learn about radicals I suddenly understood the theory of it all, and it became way easier. But I did chicken out halfway through the radicals and went on to the real kanji, and now I am going a bit back and forth. I totally agree with whoever it was that said learning them by strokecount isn't optimal, but I use the kanji closeups here, and Anki (flashcardprogram) in addition. Plus I use Genki where I actually learn to use the Kanji in context=D

[gerald_ford]

A couple comments:

1. I actually just use the White Rabbit Press flashcards without any book (and occasionally look stuff up on wikipedia). You can't learn overnight, but the key to kanji is exposure or "flight time" as I call it. You have to see, study a little bit (not too much) per day for a long time. You won't really learn it any other way.

2. Natto is good. My wife's Japanese, so I eat it a lot. The key is to keep it cool (not frozen), so the smell is subdued, and just eat with a bit of hot mustard, soy sauce. Once you add the sauces, mix until its frothy and eat over white rice. It's quite healthy is really good. I wouldn't try it for years, but once i did, I couldnt' stop.

[Javizy]

You have to see, study a little bit (not too much) per day for a long time. You won't really learn it any other way.

Unless he did like Marmite, and decided to use Heisig

[kinyobi]

I've yet to start, but I thought of taking an odd approach. While in Japan way back in 1988, I purchased children's books (they were like homeschool books) for practicing Kanji - they were 8 books in all from grades 1-8 each with Stroke order and practice pages and Hirgana / Kanji sentences.

This gives you an idea how long I've been putting off learning Nihongo - but I made a new years resolution to pick it back up. I am hoping to get to the Kanji soon as I nearly have memorized all of the Hiragana and Katakana (though some of the Katakana is getting me mixed up Chi, So, Tsu N).

I will update you how things go with the Kanji.

[Belton]

@kinyobi-san
The only thing I'd say about your approach is that even a Japanese first grader has more Japanese than most 2nd language learners. The Japanese system is mostly adding the written character to vocabulary already known, an easier position than learning totally from scratch. They are also in an immersive situation and it still takes 8 years.

I'm working through the grade school kanji myself using Japanese books and vocabulary is probably my main stumbling block.

I'm loath to recommend Heisig but it is one of the few approaches I've seen aimed at 2nd language learners. One key benefit is the order you study the kanji.

2nd language learners need a different strategy to learn kanji than native Japanese (IMO). Be that Heisig or by semantic grouping and graded exercises (Basic Kanji Book) or by studying the logic behind kanji (Lets Learn Kanji)


Still don't like marmite or natto or...
But I had dried natto instead of peanuts on a JAL flight recently. Those I really liked.

[gerald_ford]

@Belton: good points all.

My daughter is half-japanese and learning Japanese the "native" way as any kid would, but being a barbarian myself, I have to utilize a different approach. I know the fundamentals of communication already (nouns, verbs, tense, etc), but I just don't know how to express them in Japanese. But once you master the basic grammar and vocab, you cross a certain threshold where all it is is practice, practice, practice. Listening is the hardest skill and just requires sheer practice over long-term, while memorizing vocabulary is the same. You can't cram, you just have to learn a little bit each day, over a long period.

P.S. Dried Natto? Those aren't the wasabi ones are they? If so, yummy.

[Javizy]

I'm loath to recommend Heisig but it is one of the few approaches I've seen aimed at 2nd language learners. One key benefit is the order you study the kanji.

Just wondering why that is. I've seen you steer some other poor souls away from even trying the book, and it makes me shiver to think of the extremely extended path of mindnumbing repetition and frustration these newbies have unwittingly been led down.

The technique works, and when it works, it's more efficient than anything else. That's a fact. Not just with kanji either, a guy who broke a record for remembering insanely long strings of numbers described a technique extremely similar, which involved creating mental images for given sets of numbers that interwined in a way which allowed him to recall them with perfect accuracy. These images are essentially memories, aren't they? Memories that can be kept very fresh and vivid with review. A talented artist could depict a vivid memory in beautiful detail; all we have to do is write about 15 strokes.

Whether or not the individual has the drive, ability, understanding, affinity, or whatever it is, to pull this off is a different matter. The fact is, there is no argument for not giving it a shot. If somebody was about to undergo gruelling physiotherapy that would take 3-4 years, and there was a drug, effective for say 60% of people, that could help shorten this to 6 months, would the therapist tell the guy to just forget it and fight on for 4 years just because it didn't work with one of his other patients, or would he make the very obvious choice to take the 60% shot to begin with?