Practice Your Japanese Through Conversation

[Alan]

Well, the horse is already a noun. The way this sentence is layed out, we don't have a "galloping horse that stopped" but "the horse suddenly stopped galloping." Koto here is attached only to hashiru and makes it a gerund (a noun form of a verb). "to run" -> "running."

分かりました。「走る　こと」だけ　主題　です。

私なら、こう書きます：

走っている馬は急に止まって、私は転げ落ちました。

or a little more expressive:

走っている馬は急に止まって、私は転げ落ちてしまいました。

あと　で　見れます。今、会社　へ　行きます。
ジェイソンさん、有難う　ございました。

アラン

Edit: 見た。「て　しまう」と　好き　です。

[Bueller_007]

How about for na-adjectives?
有名ではない町

There's no は in this phrase. It should be:
有名でない町

は is not normally used in the negative form of attributives. For example:
きれいでない女 (OK!)
きれいではない女 (NO!)

[Bueller_007]

あの　猫　は　奇麗　でわ　ありません。That cat isn't pretty.

You're using わ where you should be using は. Remember, when used as the topic particle, は is pronounced "wa". So it's: ではありません. でわ is sometimes used by young people, but it's not correct grammar/spelling by any means.

奇麗　でわない　人　は　部屋　に　入りました。　A non-pretty person entered the room.

As above, you've confused わ and は. Also, as I just mentioned to Jason, there is normally no は in this middle of an attributive. So this is the correct version:
きれいでない人は部屋に入りました。
(Also, が might be better than は here, but I digress.)

[Jason]

How about for na-adjectives?
有名ではない町

There's no は in this phrase. It should be:
有名でない町

Stupid disappearing は.

[metablue]

は is not normally used in the negative form of attributives. For example:
きれいでない女 (OK!)
きれいではない女 (NO!)

とてもゆうようです。

でも、いまビュラさんは「おれ-スタイル」ですね
なによりも、ビュラさんの「ぼく-スタイル」がすきですよ　:wink:

きれいでない人(OK!)
きれいでない女 (あぶない)



<edit> 「あぶない」をべんきょうしました！

[Alan]

あの　猫　は　奇麗　でわ　ありません。That cat isn't pretty.

You're using わ where you should be using は. Remember, when used as the topic particle, は is pronounced "wa". So it's: ではありません. でわ is sometimes used by young people, but it's not correct grammar/spelling by any means.

はい、分かりました。忘れました。

奇麗　でわない　人　は　部屋　に　入りました。　A non-pretty person entered the room.

As above, you've confused わ and は. Also, as I just mentioned to Jason, there is normally no は in this middle of an attributive. So this is the correct version:
きれいでない人は部屋に入りました。
(Also, が might be better than は here, but I digress.)

Thanks for the handy tip. I checked through my books and apart from one or two places where the 'wa' was in brackets, it wasn't mentioned that it was omitted.

ブエラさん、有難う。

Oh, and I used the wrong kanji for horse in my earlier 'horse example'
午　is the horse from the zodiac
馬　is a regular live horse.

アラン

[Alan]

There was a discussion about linking negative adjectives earlier, which didn't really bottom out the issue. I've looked through several books & think I've got it.

Firstly, when linking positive i-adjectives with -kute, it isn't quite the same as using 'and' in English. There is a mild cause and effect. So it's a bit more like 'and therefore'. This explains why Jason said I couldn't say 'enjoyable and difficult' as 'tanoshikute muzukashii' because that would imply it was difficult because it was enjoyable

I've found that there is a 'kunakute' ending. It means 'is not~", but appears to be used to indicate a reason or cause for a state or an action. So once again there is that causative emphasis that isn't implied by the english 'not [adj] and [adj]'. So we can't use it to say 'is not red and flat'. Actually that doesn't really work in English either, as the 'not' really applies to the whole clause. However we could say 'not far and therefore convenient' in Japanese using 'tooi' and 'benri'.

スーパーが家から遠くなくて、とても便利です。
The supermarket isn't far from my house, so it is very convienient.

There is also a form for 'na' verbs. 'na' is replaced by 'de nakute', carefully omitting the 'wa' this time

みんなさん、正解ですか。

アラン

[metablue]

There is a mild cause and effect.

That's the coolest thing I've heard all day. ^^

[Bueller_007]

Thanks for the handy tip. I checked through my books and apart from one or two places where the 'wa' was in brackets, it wasn't mentioned that it was omitted.

ブエラさん、有難う。

Oh, and I used the wrong kanji for horse in my earlier 'horse example'
午　is the horse from the zodiac
馬　is a regular live horse.

アラン

I didn't even see that post...

Anyway, you will notice "午" is not only the kanji for "horse", it is also the prevalent kanji in the word for "noon" (正午, shougo, literally "exact/precise horse"). This comes from the Chinese astrological clock, where each 24-hour day is cut into 12 pieces: one for each animal of the Chinese Zodiac. 11AM to 1PM is "午の刻": "the 2-hr period of the horse".

So the Japanese words for AM (午前) and PM (午後) literally mean "before the horse" and "after the horse".

That's a little JCC for you.

[tarokun]

I am certain that 午 means noon, but I highly doubt that it means horse. Horse is written as 馬. The kanji 午 in ancient time is used as a counter for an interval of the day.

In ancient chinese, each day is divided into 12 intervals. Each such interval = 2 hours. These counters are roughly as follows:

子 11pm-1am
丑 1-3 am
寅 3-5 am
卯 5-7 am
辰 7-9 am
已 9-11 am
午 11am-1pm
未 1-3 pm
申 3-5 pm
酉 5-7 pm
戌 7-9 pm
亥 9-11 pm

So, 午 is around noon.

Sometimes, these counters are used to count the 12 years in a Chinese Zodiac cycle. The year of the Horse is the 7th, which is 午 in the list above.

So, 午 means the 7th, not horse.

[metablue]

Cool information. Thanks, guys. My sign's time of day is the one in which everyone is sleeping, both the early people and the late people. I guess that makes it a good time for prowling ^^

Taro-san, what does your sig mean?

かなりの偏食なのでいろいろありすぎ。

There are a variety of fairly unbalanced vegetable diets?

[Alan]

Anyway, you will notice "午" is not only the kanji for "horse", it is also the prevalent kanji in the word for "noon" (正午, shougo, literally "exact/precise horse"). This comes from the Chinese astrological clock, where each 24-hour day is cut into 12 pieces: one for each animal of the Chinese Zodiac. 11AM to 1PM is "午の刻": "the 2-hr period of the horse".

So the Japanese words for AM (午前) and PM (午後) literally mean "before the horse" and "after the horse".

That's a little JCC for you.

Thanks. These little cultural differences are really interesting.

[Alan]

I am certain that 午 means noon, but I highly doubt that it means horse. Horse is written as 馬. The kanji 午 in ancient time is used as a counter for an interval of the day.

Taro-san, Thanks for the info on the hours of the day. Very interesting.

(Edit) I did find this on the internet:

A set of twelve signs formerly used to indicate time and direction were associated with plants and animals and then used as a system of divination. They were marked on a circle clockwise beginning with ne, “the rat” and used to designate time in two-hour intervals. Each of them was also associated with a month of the year. They were also used in various methods of divination. Today they are still in use to designate the names of the years.

I guess, the meanings have become adopted for the zodiac.(/edit)

I knew uma was horse, & looked it up in Kenkyusha's new Japanese-English Dictionary to get the Kanji & erroneously grabbed the zodiac horse. The entry reads 'the Horse, one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac'.

Lets get all twelve

十二支 = The twelve signs of the Chinese Zodiac
子 = ne(zumi) = the Rat, the first of the twelve animals of the zodiac.
丑 = ushi = the Ox, one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.
寅 = tora = the Tiger, one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.
卯 = u(sagi) = rabbit = the Rabbit [Hare], one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.
辰 = tatsu = the Dragon, one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.
巳 = mi = hebi? = the Snake, one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.
午 = uma = the Horse, one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.
羊 = hitsuji = the Ram, one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.
申 = saru = the Monkey, one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.
酉 = tori = the Cock [Rooster], one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.
戌 = inu = the Dog, one of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.
亥 = i(noshishi) = the Boar, as the last of the twelve animals of the oriental zodiac.

Edit: Eventually found them all. Some of the kanji are just the first syllable of the word. None of them are the same as the non-zodiacal kanji!

Edit2: I found a page with the original meanings
http://www.kanjigraphy.com/mainpages/info/orientalzodiac.html

どの年生まれましたか。
私は卯年に生まれました 。
アラン

[Jason]

Just realized this thread was in the wrong forum. Moved to 日本語を練習しましょう.

[Alan]

Cool information. Thanks, guys. My sign's time of day is the one in which everyone is sleeping, both the early people and the late people. I guess that makes it a good time for prowling ^^

寅ですか。