のは,ことは, and というの（こと）は

[ZeRinku]

というの（Or こと）は is used only to define and describe(excluding the direct quote and quote related stuff I understand that), right? But I am guessing that it can't be used when something is being done to the subordinate clause, correct? For example this sentence is incorrect, right?

授業に行くということを忘れた。(Forgot to go to class)

Since という is not describing anything or defining anything this sentence would be incorrect,right? But also the other thing I am confused about is that is there a difference between using のは,ことは or というの（こと）は when you ARE defining or describing something? For example do both of these pairs of sentences have the same meaning?

寿司を食べるというのはいつも楽しい。(Eating sushi is always fun)

and

寿司を食べるのはいつも楽しい。(Eating sushi is always fun)

Also these two sentences

毎日学校に行くということは楽しくない。(Going to school everyday is not fun)

毎日学校に行くことは楽しくない。(Going to school everyday is not fun)

Do each pair a sentences have the same exact meaning? If they do does using という making your sentence sound more mature? Or more emphasis perhaps? Any help between the difference of these would really help! Thank you.

[WalterWills]

The difference between の and こと is that の is used for things that the speaker can empathise with, while こと is used for things he can't/doesn't.

スポーツは見るのもやるのも好き

So I guess, theoretically, any sentence saying that you like or hate doing a particular thing would never involve こと, but I guess there might be an exception somewhere.

Therefore this sentence is wrong:
毎日学校に行くことは楽しくない。

Because the use of こと implies that the speaker doesn't empathise with going to school everyday, so how does he know whether it's fun or not?

Now I'm not too sure about という, but the way I think of it it when I use it myself, it has two meanings:

First, it's like a quotation:
ざといちという映画を見たことがあります。

I've seen a film called "Zatoichi".
And I just noticed a use of こと there that contradicts the earlier explanation, but I guess it must be a "different" こと because it's part of the ことがある phrase.


Also, という is basically the particle と and the verb 言う.
So "。。。ということ" means "the thing saying that..." (not literally).

So...
猫が自殺したという知らせ

...means "the news saying that the cat committed suicide", or rather "the news that the cat committed suicide".

So this sentence is wrong because of the use of こと:
毎日学校に行くということは楽しくない。

...but I think the use of という makes the sentence seem like:

"Going to school everyday" is not fun.

As I said, I'm not too sure about my explanation of という, but I'm sure someone else here can give you a better explanation.

[ZeRinku]

But everytime you use という does not mean there is a quote involved for example I know this sentence is correct because I took it from a site.

主人公が犯人だったというのが一番面白かった。 (The most interesting thing was that the main character was the criminal)

There is no quote involved there it is used to describe something and in this case it is the clause "The main character was the criminal". The と is used here to capsulize that clause to talk about it and いう is acting as a generic verb to talk about that clause. But what I am wondering is...can that sentence be changed to 主人公が犯人だったのが一番面白かった。and still mean the same thing? I am not sure if I am right but I think that when you use という it gives the sense that the sentence is focusing on that clause...am I right or no? But I am not going to assume...so do both these sentences portray the same meaning? If not what is the difference?

主人公が犯人だったというのが一番面白かった。

and

主人公が犯人だったのが一番面白かった。

[hatch_jp]

For example this sentence is incorrect, right?

授業に行くということを忘れた。(Forgot to go to class)

This sentence is correct.
If it is translated literally;
授業に行くということを忘れた。＝Forgot the thing of going to class.

These three sentences are the same meaning;
授業に行くということを忘れた。
授業に行くことを忘れた。
授業に行くのを忘れた。

ということ can emphasis the prior word(s)/sentence.

寿司を食べるというのはいつも楽しい。(Eating sushi is always fun)
寿司を食べるのはいつも楽しい。(Eating sushi is always fun)

毎日学校に行くということは楽しくない。(Going to school everyday is not fun)
毎日学校に行くことは楽しくない。(Going to school everyday is not fun)

Each of the two sentences are correct and the same meaning.

So I guess, theoretically, any sentence saying that you like or hate doing a particular thing would never involve こと, but I guess there might be an exception somewhere.

Therefore this sentence is wrong:
毎日学校に行くことは楽しくない。

"to verb" and present participle can be translated into "～こと" in Japanese even if it is the sentence that mentions your feeling of likes or dislikes.
I like to listen to music. ＝　音楽を聴くことが好きです。
I like watching movies. ＝　映画をみることが好きです。
Jogging is fun.＝ジョギングすることは楽しい。


When こと is used with a past tense, it mentions the experience. I mean, it would be perefect tense in English.
I've been to Japan. ＝ 日本に行ったことがあります。
I've never flown. ＝ 飛行機にのったことがありません。

But I am not going to assume...so do both these sentences portray the same meaning? If not what is the difference?

主人公が犯人だったというのが一番面白かった。
and
主人公が犯人だったのが一番面白かった。

These two sentences are the same meaning.


This is another grammer using "というのは";
When "というのは" is used as suffix, the clause could be unsure things that you just heard as rumor or something without proofs.
彼女が人妻というのは、本当？＝ Is it true that she is a wife?
彼女が独身だというのは、嘘なの？＝It was a lie that she was single?

[ZeRinku]

Thank you so much! So basically any of them are fine to use...thats a relief to hear. And also you are saying that using こと for emphasis is fine and you don't HAVE to use の, correct?

[hatch_jp]

you don't HAVE to use の, correct?

I'm sorry. What do you mean?

[ZeRinku]

Are のは,ことは, and というの（こと）は pretty much interchangeable is my question. WalterWills said something that you cannot use anything but の to emphasize but from your explanation I am taking that any of those sentences are correct and using のは,ことは, and というの（こと）は are acceptable as well, right?

Thank you!

[hatch_jp]

All the following sentences are correct;
　毎日学校に行くということは楽しくない。
　毎日学校に行くというのは楽しくない。
　毎日学校に行くことは楽しくない。
　毎日学校に行くのは楽しくない。

http://eow.alc.co.jp/%e3%81%a8%e3%81%84 ... %af/UTF-8/
http://eow.alc.co.jp/%e3%81%a8%e3%81%84 ... %af/UTF-8/
http://eow.alc.co.jp/%e3%81%93%e3%81%a8%e3%81%af/UTF-8/
http://eow.alc.co.jp/%e3%81%ae%e3%81%af/UTF-8/?pg=2

[Javizy]

Are のは,ことは, and というの（こと）は pretty much interchangeable is my question. WalterWills said something that you cannot use anything but の to emphasize but from your explanation I am taking that any of those sentences are correct and using のは,ことは, and というの（こと）は are acceptable as well, right?

Thank you!

The short answer is no. You've listed a bunch of grammar that serves different purposes. I doubt I can explain fully, you'll need a good textbook for that, but I'll try to fill in some details if I can.

As people have mentioned, の is used when what you're talking about is concrete or perceptible, which is why it has to be used with sensory verbs like 見える and 聞こえる. こと, on the other hand, is used for abstract, imperceptible concepts, and so has to be used with verbs like 信じる and 考える. In other less clean cut cases, こと indicates impartiality or objective generalisation, whereas の indicates some kind of personal involvement. Maybe you can understand the difference from these examples:

やまだが吐いたのを見た。
I saw Yamada throw up.
見ることは信じること。
Seeing is believing.

You might want to be aware that these differences don't apply for the idiomatic expressions ことができる、ことがある、ことにする、ことになる, or before the copular.

というのは it's a bit easier: it's used for giving definitions or explanations/interpretations of words, phrases, acronyms, etc, in the structure ~というのは~ことだ.

JLPTというのは「Japanese Language Proficiency Test」のことだ。
JLPT means Japanese Language Proficiency Test.

ということは is more conceptual than the concrete, factual ことは, so it's used when you're making a conclusion, or talking about something unlikely to happen or learned second-hand, etc. This one is pretty new to me, so I'd definitely recommend looking it up. A Dictionary of Intermediate Japanese Grammar has great explanations on these points and many others.

あの女たらしが結婚するということは考えられない。
It's unimaginable that playa would get married.
彼が結婚しってることは本当だよ。
It's the truth that he's married.

[ZeRinku]

Yes I do understand what you are talking about. But I learned that のは,ことは, and というの（こと）は are all pretty much interchangeable BUT using a specific one sounds better. I think I am confident on which to use and when. Starting off のは is just used to say something is something. It is usually not used with sentences that involve movement. For example I think that 毎日学校に行くのは楽しくない should(to sound better) have の replaced with こと. Which brings me to ことは. This is used for generic events that do usually require some movement of some kind (go, come, return). So in the above sentence using こと sounds better, IMO. Then というの（こと）は is used to give the sentence more of...a sense of really describing something. It sometimes gets the meaning "it means" or something like that and it is used for hearsay or asking is something is true as in your last example. Hmm...a lot of thinking. ^_^

I feel like I do have a better understanding of what to use and when to make a clause sound better. A quick review from Tae Kim's guide made me see the little differences. Yay Tae Kim!:)