名詞＋「の」＋形容詞？

[jbraswell]

こんにちわ。　最近テキストを使っていて、次の変な文を見ました：

「丸谷さんという、ぽちゃぽちゃとした顔の丸い若い娘さんがおりました。」

ちょっとややこしいと思います。　ぼくは、「丸い」は、顔を記述しそうですけど、名詞＋の＋形容詞は、文法を守りますか？　あるいは、ぼくは全く間違っていますか？

お手伝ってくれてありがとう、
ジェーソン

[Rod Wadd]

「顔の丸い」は正しいですよ。　　「の」のかわりに「が」が入ると全く一緒とおもうんですが。。。もっと詳しい人の説明を待っています。

[hatch_jp]

「ぽちゃぽちゃとした顔の丸い若い娘」


最初の「ぽちゃぽちゃとした顔の」 は「顔」を修飾し、「名詞＋の」は形容詞的な働きをします。

ぽちゃぽちゃとした顔の丸い若い娘 ＝＞ぽちゃぽちゃとした顔の（丸い若い）娘
大きな家の小さい窓　＝＞　大きな家の（小さい）窓
庭のきれいな花　＝＞　庭の（きれいな）花

[jbraswell]

hatch_jp

「丸い」とは、娘さんを修飾したら、「丸くて、若い娘さん」を言えば、正しいですか。

ありがとう

[hatch_jp]

すみません。　よく読んだら違いました。

「顔の丸い」は「顔が丸い」　と同じです。

人の特徴（とくちょう feature）を説明するときには、「が」の代わりに「の」も使われます。

背の高い男性＝背が高い男性
胸の小さな女性＝胸が小さい女性
足の長い人＝足が長い人

[WalterWills]

So why isn't it:

顔の丸くて若い。。。?


Is it because the て form of adjectives is only used when describing the same thing?
So would "kao no marukute wakai" mean "a round and young face"?

[WalterWills]

And just a suggestion but I'm sure more people would benefit from this thread if it was written in English...

[hatch_jp]

顔の丸くて若い。。。?

Is it because the て form of adjectives is only used when describing the same thing?

In this case, "the same thing" is "女性".
Therefore, you can use "te form" to connect these two sentences, but the particle should be "が".
顔の丸い女性　＋　若い女性 ＝ 顔が丸くて若い女性 ( young woman who has a round face)

1. When two adjectives are combined without "te form", you can use "の" as the particle instead of "が".
　noun + の + adjective(basic form,)+ adjective + noun
　examples;
　　胸の大きいきれいな女性 = a beautiful woman who has big boobs
　　足の長いハンサムな男性 = a cute guy who has long legs
　　背の小さい太った男性 = a fat man who is short
　you can also say
　　胸が大きいきれいな女性 = a beautiful woman who has big boobs
　　足が長いハンサムな男性 = a cute guy who has long legs
　　背が小さい太った男性 = a fat man who is short

2. When two adjectives are combined with "te form", you should use "が" as the particle after the first noun.
　noun + が + adjective(te form) + adjective + noun
　examples;
　　胸が大きくてきれいな女性 = a beautiful woman who has big boobs
　　足が長くてハンサムな男性 = a cute guy who has long legs
　　背が小さくて太った男性 = a fat man who is short

[Javizy]

This is a question of emphasis, right? I like hatch_jp's example, so I'll use that.

胸の大きいきれいな女性

Here, きれいな女性 is a noun phrase being modified by 胸の大きい. The fact that she is beautiful is somewhat taken for granted; the focus is on what she's stocking up top. A beautiful woman with large breasts.

胸が大きくてきれいな女性

Here, 女性 is being modified by 胸が大きくてきれいな. So, the focus is on neither of her attributes, we are simply stating that she is beautiful and well proportioned. A beautiful, large-breasted woman.

That's my take on it anyway, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I think the subtle differences would be lost in translation, since only the first one sounds natural in English.

As for の and が in relative clauses, I don't think there's a whole lot of difference, but の softens the emphasis on the subject somewhat, and throws your attention to what comes after it.

[jbraswell]

Thanks, everyone. Really helpful discussion.

[WalterWills]

Yeah, thanks Hatch & Javizy, it wasn't my thread but I learned a lot too!