So many podcasts, so much audio - how to begin?

[Oris]

After about a year i've come back to JapanesePod101 and was surprised to see so many podcasts in so many new categories:
Newbie
Beginner - THREE SEASON (new coming up)
Intermediate - THREE LEVELS

and of course others like blog audio and survival phrases. So much material can't but delight one, but how do I go through this? From what i've seen the lessons are cumulative, each one builds on the previous ones - that's good.

But does it mean that one should follow Newbie, Beginner1, Beginner2, Beginner3, Lower Int., Intermediate, Upper Int. in the linear fashion? How do people study? Considering i'm a complete (but determined) newbie?

I would appreciate anybody's feedback Either your personal or any known "formal" way that i've missed.

Thanks

[andamanislander]

Oris,

My advice is to focus on the Beginner's Series Season 1. That's what I did. I worked my way up through all 170 of those lessons (at the rate of 1-3 lessons a day) and by the time I got to the end, I found I was able to listen to lessons at any level and more or less follow.

Of course, getting through MIki's blog requires a lot more sustained effort and attention to the PDF than getting through the Newbie Lessons, but the point is that after a a few months of Beginner's Lessons BOTH will be within your reach.

Maybe it's Nostalgia, but that first series of beginner's lessons is still my favorite. Naomi-sensei hadn't joined the team yet, and Peter and Natsuko weren't anywhere near as experienced and smooth at it as they are now, but then that's kind of the charm. You can actually HEAR them learning how to give an effective lesson, improving day by day, and you improve with them.

The most important thing, though, is to have a realistic time frame. It will take several months before you start to reliably understand even simple conversations. There's no quick fix about it, and there's no use telling yourselves lies about it. Stick it out, realize that it CAN be done but it can't be done QUICKLY, and you'll do fine.

[Taurus]

As the site advises, you're probably best off listening to a sample lesson from each level and then deciding. Recently I've been finishing off the end of the first series of beginner lessons just because I had an OCD-style compulsion to finish them before moving on to other lessons, so I was surprised to find that when I clicked on a lower intermediate lesson I found it easier to understand (not least because the last time I clicked on an intermediate lesson, when they first came out, it was a bit too advanced for me).

[sodapple]

Taurus, yeah you're right!

[Oris]

Thanks for the replies I have listened to Beginner lessons also and think that doing Newbie and Beginner in parallel shouldn't be a problem.

One other thing i'm kind of concerned about is kanji (i know kana relatively well by now.) I know i'm asking a beat-up question but still, in what order should i study kanji? Since i'm doing Newbie and Beginner lessons should i study the kanji in the order they appear in transcripts? The lessons present the language starting from simple words, but it doesn't mean that these words use simple kanji If you understand what i mean. For example Newbie Lesson #3 has this line:

Code: Select All

山口　お蔭様で、元気です。

Here i understand that "okagesamade" is a popular and common expression that every newbie should know, but its kanji looks waaaay too far from the beginner level Should i ignore SOME kanji, or should i study kanji from some other resource in the order they present them?

[andamanislander]

http://kanji.koohii.com/ !
http://kanji.koohii.com/ !
http://kanji.koohii.com/ !

[Oris]

Okay, i came back to update my previous post and see there's one suggestion already.
I was browsing through this topic (the 3-page long Kanji Approach thread) and saw many suggestions and options as far as kanji goes. Heisig's Remembering Kanji is mentioned quite often.

andamanislander, from your link i see the site uses Heisig's techniques. I see a lot of people recommend it. But what i'm afraid of is learning japanese from podcasts here and studying kanji from somewhere else will make my head explode - since i probably won't be able to apply kanji to the phrases and words i learned from podcasts.. I don't know if this makes sense, but to explain myself in two words: i know that if i overwhelm myself with something i'll get frustrated, disappointed and in the end give up. Thus, i'm kind of trying to find the balance between learning THE LANGUAGE and KANJI

I'm asking too many questions, but if sombody can answer any of them - i'd appreciate that a lot Thanks

[QuackingShoe]

Because the study of kanji is rather intensive, you pretty much have to put some slack on the one to study the other. I put a pretty huge delay in my generic Japanese learning when I was going through Heisig at full speed, and now that I'm trying to study actual Japanese more again, my Heisig has slowed down near the end. But my kanji experience, now, has made learning actual Japanese incalculably easier, and I can see that continuing to compound as I move on and solidify readings.

Basically, you have to learn them sometime, you might as well do it now, since they help with everything else. It's inconvenient, but it's there and has to get done. You could try to learn the kanji by only using this site, but you'd be quite the years before you even finish the jouyou list with any kind of skill. First because they're just outright covered slowly (understandably), and second because it takes a lot of time and a lot of effort to well learn the writing of a kanji using traditional methods.
Do whatever works for you. But attaining the raw basics of literacy as quickly as possible is rather important, and the Heisig method (with that RevTK website) is quick way to get that.

Like you said, learning kanji like 蔭 and 様 from square one is pretty out of whack. They're a lot of strokes and a lot of complexity with no frame of reference, and those are actually pretty mild examples in the grand scheme of thing. Skip them, but don't stop there - skip everything else and just study kanji separately. When you're reading through a JPod101 pdf and you see kanji you know, use them, and take note of their use. See how they're used, apply them. But only the ones you've already learned. And when you do learn kanji like 様 (蔭 actually isn't a jouyou kanji!), using the Heisig method of building up foundations, it won't actually be any more complicated to learn for you than any other kanji is, no matter how high or low the stroke number.

Really, that's one of the benefits I'm not sure people are made too aware of, when it's actually one of the biggest ones. Looking at my list, the highest stroke number kanji I have is apparently 鑑, and the next three are 顧, 露, and 躍. But they're just as easy to remember as 速 is. Or 早, for that matter. It's all about how you break them down.

[andamanislander]

I've had the same experience as QuackingShoe: I found it really almost impossible to concentrate on Kanji and Podcasts at the same time. I seem to alternate between concentrating on one and the other for a couple of weeks at a time.

One point to bear in mind, though, is that http://kanji.koohii.com/ is *based* on the Heisig *method*, but in many ways is way *better* than Dr. Heisig's *book.* The Spaced Repetition Software, the user community, the shared stories, the updating, the "hive intelligence" that develops there gives the site a power that the original book can't match. Which is why I recommend the site much more strongly than the book.

I will end by stressing the importance of realistic timelines once more. If you're in a hurry, you WILL feel overwhelmed. It's foolish to believe you can learn Japanese quickly. I've been studying every day for 18 months and my spoken Japanese still sucks! But I don't worry about it, because I *know* it gets that little bit better every day, and I *know* I'll get there in the end.

So just take a big breath, aim to speak reasonably well in 2 years, very well in 4 or 5, and just determine to be absolutely stubborn about studying at least 320 days a year no matter what. You WILL get there in the end...but only if you start with a healthy understanding that progress cannot be quick.

[andamanislander]

Oris,

Actually, the message boards on http://kanji.koohii.com/ may be the more appropriate place to discuss this, but I wanted to add one last thing about the Heisig Method.

One of Dr. Heisig's big insights is that, in a weird way, until you've learned all the basic kanji, you haven't really learned any of them. It's like learning the letters A through L and telling yourself you're 50% of the way to literacy! You're not! The second you run into a letter T, you'll be utterly lost!

Kanji are relational. They make sense in context, in relation to one another. So, in the end, Kanji are only really helpful once you know the whole set. Familiarizing yourself with ALL the kanji - even if just superficially - ends up being much more helpful than learning 25% of the kanji in detail (the the readings, etc.)

[Oris]

I appreciate your responses guys. This sounds much more realistic now.
QuackingShoe, that is exactly what was troubling me so much - learning kanji and language at the same time. Your advice on focusing on just one is the most realistic one so far. That is, of course it doesn't have a "Easy Japanese! Master Japanese in no time!" label. but this must be the way to go.
I guess the hardest part for me is "skipping" things, but i guess i'll have to take it as another challenge of language learning

andamanislander,
I have checked the site, it does look like it works, judging by their forums alone, a pretty big community. As for the time frame, i'm in no hurry, i know the reality of language learning (English is my second language, 4 years ago i didn't speak it). I think it's for this reason that i'm too worried about every nuance of learning another language - i see many potential stumbling blocks and unless i know what the full path looks like i won't even try it This "full path" image is what i was trying to get by asking here.

Well, for now i guess i'll stick with listening to podcasts as a way of familiarizing myself with the language structure, memorizing phrases and building vocabulary. And cramming kanji (Heisig method) from the beginning as if it is a separate thing.