Kanji -- how to start study ?

[ShiroiNeko]

Looks like I finally have to start studying kanji.
I've not been looking forward to it, but it's going to become part of the group study course I've just started.

How is the best way to start ??
The actual study doesn't bother me, as I have loads of material - I just don't know where to begin !!

[Fedgrub]

I'm no expert on kanji, but I believe flashcards are one of the most common methods used. There are lots of flash card packages you can purchase from places like White Rabbit Express, however it would be much cheaper to make your own.

[jkid]

ShiroiNeko,
Study the Kanji as you come into contact with them. There is no sense studying Kanji you have no use for. Also I recommend (as Kanji can have more than one reading or meaning) to study the reading most immediately applicable to you . Again, no sense studying readings you will not use for a while. There are many methods it just depends on how you personally study in terms of were to start begin with the first Kanji your study group comes across that is necessary for it to learn (to understand a sentence you are reading for example).

[zombiecide]

I started out with the very basic kanji (person, tree, book/root, light/day, moon, earth, water, numbers 1-10, colours and similar) and then proceeded by making flashcards for kanji as I came across them (both in my language class and whenever I tried to read things in Japanese).
This makes a lot of sense to me as I usually learn vocabulary through context, so the few flashcards I did make just because I found the kanji pretty/funny are the ones I never remember.
Oh, and learning the meaning of radicals and the basic stroke order for radicals doesn't hurt either.

[Javizy]

I can't believe so many people don't use Heisig. Using his 'Remembering the Kanji' book along with Anki's premade review deck is definitely my recommendation.

Learning the kanji in a random order that "suits you" will actually cause you major problems in the long run. For example, I didn't see 貝 or 斤 used anywhere for a very long time, but learning them made the character 質 much easier to break down, and write correctly.

Heisig introduces characters in an order that gives you the necessary building blocks to put together more complex characters (this includes stroke order) . The main gist of the book, however, is the mnemonic system that makes remembering hundreds of characters much easier than you would think.

First 100 or so pages of the book
Anki (flashcard program)

[johnpa]

I can't believe so many people don't use Heisig. Using his 'Remembering the Kanji' book along with Anki's premade review deck is definitely my recommendation.

Learning the kanji in a random order that "suits you" will actually cause you major problems in the long run. For example, I didn't see 貝 or 斤 used anywhere for a very long time, but learning them made the character 質 much easier to break down, and write correctly.

Heisig introduces characters in an order that gives you the necessary building blocks to put together more complex characters (this includes stroke order) . The main gist of the book, however, is the mnemonic system that makes remembering hundreds of characters much easier than you would think.

First 100 or so pages of the book
Anki (flashcard program)

Interesting you should bring this up. I am also at the beginner stage of learning kanji, and I've been considering Heisig's book.
The idea of learning kanji from basic components to more complex formations really appeals to me, and the idea of using imaginative memory (vs. visual memory) makes a lot of sense. But his mnemonic system seems rather dry.
I'm currently learning on my own. So the fun factor is essential for keeping me motivated.
I've been playing around with menmonics since 6th grade, so I'm actually looking forward to memorizing the kanji. But if it's a choice between a haphazard approach that allows me to exercise my own imagination vs a systematic approach that makes little sense to me, I'll take the haphazard approach.

Is there some source (preferably a website) that organizes the jouyou kanji — from simplest to most complex — on the basis of more traditional readings of the radicals? I think it would be more fun (and more effective) to work out my own mnemonic system.

[Javizy]

I can't believe so many people don't use Heisig. Using his 'Remembering the Kanji' book along with Anki's premade review deck is definitely my recommendation.

Learning the kanji in a random order that "suits you" will actually cause you major problems in the long run. For example, I didn't see 貝 or 斤 used anywhere for a very long time, but learning them made the character 質 much easier to break down, and write correctly.

Heisig introduces characters in an order that gives you the necessary building blocks to put together more complex characters (this includes stroke order) . The main gist of the book, however, is the mnemonic system that makes remembering hundreds of characters much easier than you would think.

First 100 or so pages of the book
Anki (flashcard program)

Interesting you should bring this up. I am also at the beginner stage of learning kanji, and I've been considering Heisig's book.
The idea of learning kanji from basic components to more complex formations really appeals to me, and the idea of using imaginative memory (vs. visual memory) makes a lot of sense. But his mnemonic system seems rather dry.
I'm currently learning on my own. So the fun factor is essential for keeping me motivated.
I've been playing around with menmonics since 6th grade, so I'm actually looking forward to memorizing the kanji. But if it's a choice between a haphazard approach that allows me to exercise my own imagination vs a systematic approach that makes little sense to me, I'll take the haphazard approach.

Is there some source (preferably a website) that organizes the jouyou kanji — from simplest to most complex — on the basis of more traditional readings of the radicals? I think it would be more fun (and more effective) to work out my own mnemonic system.

What do you mean by "your own mnemonic system"? Heisig's idea is pretty simple: you make images for radicals and "component" characters like the two I mentioned, and then they come together in a single image that leads you back to the more complex characters. If you find his stories pretty boring, then by all means make your own. For it to be effective, it needs to be vivid in your memory, so use whatever images work for you, this is what he forces you to do a few chapters into the book anyway.

Unless you're able to somehow miraculously reinvent the wheel on kanji learning techniques, you're probably going to find the process very frustrating and drawnout. Japanese is a hobby for me as well, but you have to be realistic and accept that memorising 2000 characters isn't going to be fun, but when you start seeing the results it's definitely rewarding. In my opinion, Heisig and Anki offer the most convenient and effective solution for long-term retention that will allow you to not just recognise characters, but write them from memory.

[jkid]

To each their own I guess. Heisig's book was mentioned on the forum before. There seemed to be a fair number of people who weren't too fond of it. I think I would find it annoying because it doesn't teach you the readings only how to remember the Kanji when seeing it written. Which is nice but only half the picture. At least that is what I've gathered. I haven't used the book for an extended period of time so I can't really comment. I am however, wondering if what I said above is correct.

[thomasz]

Oh, it is difficult to learn it. I am learning.

[johnpa]

What do you mean by "your own mnemonic system"?

You're right. I shouldn't say "my own" mnemonic system. I should say a mnemonic system "suited for me".
For example, when I first encountered 語, I pictured the alien trying to read four columns of a newspaper. Thanks to Heisig I learned that 語 is composed of 言 and 吾. I also learned that 言 is a component of 話.
It's much easier creating the associations "I/we" + "say" = "language" or "tongue" + "say" = "speech" than having to imagine new imagery for every single kanji. So in that respect, I'm attracted to Heisig's approach.

On the other hand some of the associations seem really stretched. 現 doesn't really look like 王 + 見 to me. And it's even harder to imagine how "ball" + "see" = "the present". (Aren't crystal balls supposed to see into the future?) Furthermore, since 現 can be read as either "reality" or "the present" or "consciousness", I prefer the traditional "three strung balls" reading of the radical. (They can stand for "three moments of dialectic" in my imagination.)

I don't think it's a question of reinventing the wheel. I just wonder if it wouldn't be just as effective to simply have the jouyou kanji organized by radicals. Because it would definitely be more enjoyable to form our own associations, rather than trying to squeeze our imaginations into someone else's train of thought.

[chorismos]

Kanji acquisition is something I feel strongly about because the lack of it held up my Japanese for way too long.

The alternative is too horrible to contemplate: you will sit on a train in Japan and freeze with the sea of meaningless characters mocking you, with the the forms that are saturated in the beasts, and the newspapers that are made of the stuff.

I recommend you attack kanji and immerse yourself in them. Don't hold back, don't be tentative, just start learning them all - the lot, now, from wherever it is you find yourself.

What didn't work for me was only writing them out as I came to them and flash card repetition. What certainly doesn't work is rote memorisation (it's boring, you forget their meaning/stroke order quickly, and you're not practicing them in context). Note: this does not mean 'do not write them out as you come to them' and 'do not use flashcards'. Of course you should - but you need some way also to 'arm' yourself and learn/drill the characters in a way you won't forget.

Use Heisig (at least vol 1) because it will imprint the characters - all 2000 - with vivid stories and images that don't go away. You will remember the stroke order, the basic concept and have a familiarity and conquering eye rather than freeze response.

What didn't work for me was making up my own stories because they were not systematic and not visualised effectively, therefore they soon faded. Take it from me, after a year or so, it had not worked.

To use Heisig go to http://kanji.koohii.com/ where there is a dedicated flashcard SRS and support platform, all free, with a helpful community of practitioners. Be sure to visualise each story carefully and reconstruct the kanji in your mind.

Above all be systematic and persistent and don't shy away from kanji - they are there, they are bad, and they must be conquered. If you leave them for too long or go softly softly the monster just gets bigger and you get more frustrated with how to handle it.

There is criticism about Heisig and I don't want to get into method wars but it is very difficult to find an alternative solution that is as effective. Once you've done Heisig vol 1 you can learn all the readings etc using your own SRS like Anki (just Google it if you aren't using it), and immerse yourself in Jpod 101.com etc to get Japanese spoken and written like it is. All part of an immersion input method.

[Javizy]

I think I would find it annoying because it doesn't teach you the readings only how to remember the Kanji when seeing it written

The focus of Heisig is actually the reverse of this, i.e. remembering the characters from memory. Only-know-it-when-you-see-it syndrome is something you should be prepared for if you don't use Heisig, rather than if you do. Naturally, when you see a character you've Heisig'd appear in something you read, it's very easy to "organically" associate the readings with it, so you're still likely to learn lots of readings from Manga, Jpod PDF's, etc, even before you finish.

The general 'it's only teaches you how to remember the characters, not the readings' line of thought really, really baffles me. Imagine saying 'you can only write all the jouyou kanji from memory after six months, what the hell have you been doing?'. Without Heisig, you'd spend years doing the same thing, and then there is no guarantee whatsoever you won't just forget them.

I'm tempted to go with the philosophical 'to each their own' approach myself, but it just seems that the people who criticise Heisig don't at all get it, and largely have unrealistic expectations of what it takes to learn and maintain (for the rest of your life) 2000 characters in your mind.

[ShiroiNeko]

Mina-san, arigato gozaimashita

for your comments ...

Fierce Cat
ooOO ( Growl )

[jkid]

The focus of Heisig is actually the reverse of this, i.e. remembering the characters from memory. Only-know-it-when-you-see-it syndrome is something you should be prepared for if you don't use Heisig, rather than if you do.

Javizy,
Thank you for the correction on that. I think your point that I would learn readings from PDFs and such is valid . Given that (I imagine) the book would not be that expensive I might pick it up and try the Heisig method. Is it best to start at volume 1 even though (I imagine) it would cover "basic" Kanji like 1-10 etc?

[Javizy]

The focus of Heisig is actually the reverse of this, i.e. remembering the characters from memory. Only-know-it-when-you-see-it syndrome is something you should be prepared for if you don't use Heisig, rather than if you do.

Javizy,
Thank you for the correction on that. I think your point that I would learn readings from PDFs and such is valid . Given that (I imagine) the book would not be that expensive I might pick it up and try the Heisig method. Is it best to start at volume 1 even though (I imagine) it would cover "basic" Kanji like 1-10 etc?

Volume 1 covers all the jouyou kanji plus 100 or so extra ones, volumes 2 and 3 are for readings and I think the additional 1000 or so characters still used in names and such. I haven't used 2 and 3 though, so I can't recommend them.

You'll have to start at the beginning, but since the characters aren't arranged in JLPT order or anything like that, you'll probably come across some you haven't learnt early on. Some of the beginning easy characters are the most important because they feature so frequently in other complex characters, so try not to take them too lightly.

If you have Anki, check out the sample decks because there is a Heisig one in there that has every character in the book. Try to keep your reviews up to date with where you are in the book. I didn't know about Anki until I was on the 1800th character and it took me two months to catch up