Pronunciation Questions

[ZeRinku]

In a word like flame which is "honoo" how do you pronounce the "oo" part? Do you pronounce it the same way you would if it was "ou"? Like the same way I would pronouce the long vowel in a word like getsuyoubi?

Also I know that the word ame is candy and I know that if you pronounce it differently it means rain but I was wondering...is every word in Japanese set to a certain tone and pitch? Or is it only necessary for words that have multple meanings?

[Javizy]

It sounds a bit obvious, but you pronounce 'oo' as 'o-o' and 'ou' as 'o-u'. Start of saying them separately like Naomi does in the vocab section, and then speed them up to a normal speaking pace. Although they sound very similar, your mouth should end up in a different position at the end (refer to this chart for help), and I'm sure the difference is very noticeable to native speakers.

I actually think the idea of a 'long vowel' is a terrible way of thinking of it; they're two syllables, and each one needs to be pronounced properly and given the same amount of time as any other syllable. It's easy to develop a tendency to overextend them if you don't think of it like this.

Most of all though, listen to the native speakers, and practice shadowing (repeating straight after them) as much as you can, since this will greatly improve your pronunciation and help train your pitch accent (yes, most words do have a specific pitch pattern, although it differs between regions).

[Psy]

This is the first time I think I've ever had to submit a technical correction with you, Javizy. The long oo/ou is never formed into an 'u,' and from my understanding to pronounce it such (as you would end the word "hello," if you pay attention you'll notice the shape of your lips shifts towards the end of the word), it is strongly indicative of an American accent. Both 'ou' and 'oo' maintain the sound 'o,' however, interestingly enough, according to Gene Nishi (Japanese Step By Step), 'oo' - is pronounced with the slightest hint of separation (oh oh) whereas 'ou' is simply a long 'o'. I can't say that I've really noticed much of a difference in my own (albeit limited) experience, however.

As for pitch-accent, yes, it does apply to every word, and that it shouldn't be emphasized in the early stages is what I feel to be one of the great crimes of Japanese language instruction.

[Javizy]

Interesting. Now that I try saying it, I don't form a 'u' sound. I swear I have heard Natsuko do it though, but that might just be when she emphasises words in the vocabulary section. Sometimes it sounds like her lips are moving around and I wonder 'do I pronounce it like that?'.

To be honest, I've never read an explanation about this, since it's not covered in any of the books I have. What about 'ae' and 'ai', like in 名前 and なまいき? I definitely pronounce these differently.

To the original poster, definitely scrap my last post, but do try to start shadowing as much as you can

[Psy]

The only exceptions in spelling are ei and ou, which are long Es and Os, respectively. The rest, in standard Japanese, are completely phonetic.

I've also noticed that during the vocabulary breakdown, the hosts will say, for example, きょう -- KYO * U, then a high-speed "kyoo." In the beginning they do explain that an ou is said as a long o, though. While I thought at first it might be confusing for newbies, I imagine most people will catch on in a few dozen lessons.

As for pitch accent, I swear one day I'm going to buy one of these.

[sashimidimsum7250]

I always appreciated that when they broke-down the word they pronounced each kana separately for those long vowels sounds. Mainly because it helps when seaching for those words in the dictionary.

[ZeRinku]

I think that I saw a site that once explained this "oo" sound. They said it is basically the same sound as "ou" but for certain words like "ookii" "honoo" the second "o" is used for historical purposes. Im still a little bit confused as to which pronunciation to use. And even if you don't get your pitch accent right I'm sure Japanese people will understand you wouldn't they? You would just have a heavy accent.