Tell your success stories!

[josiah]

i think it would be better to not associate with people who ridicule you.
and by asking how to say that, they are japanese?

[Elfunko]

Perhaps those Japanese people don't want to teach you, and rather than saying so politely they just act like a$$holes and ridicule you. Either way, find new friends and learn to stand up for yourself.

[Psy]

Perhaps those Japanese people don't want to teach you, and rather than saying so politely they just act like a$$holes and ridicule you. Either way, find new friends and learn to stand up for yourself.

Words to live by, Elfunko.

[kanjibaka]

stand up for myself in a non-confrontational way if someone would teach me how to say the thing I asked for above.

Someone taught me this before, but I forgot it.


Anyway, it was usually overly competitive classmates, and passive-agressive girlfriends who ridiculed me.


I don't want to get off on the negative. I have had a lot of positive experiences.

I do think that Japanese pod should do a lesson or two about sticking up for yourself.

[Elfunko]

ひどい
何言ってんだよ
別れたいのか？
最悪
お前ここは俺の部屋だから、出て行け
うるせ

Theres a few examples, after that just takes some balls and a voice.

[Psy]

ひどい　[hidoi]
何言ってんだよ [nani itten dayo]
別れたいのか？ [wakaretai no ka]
最悪 [saiaku]
お前ここは俺の部屋だから、出て行け [omae koko wa ore no heya dakara, dete ike]
うるせ [uruse]

These are all fightin' words. Not "non-confrntational" as kanjibaka put it, but if people are being mean to you sometimes it's what's necessary. My (loose) translation from top to bottom:

[you're] horrible
what the hell are you talking about?
you wanna get out of my face?
[You] suck
This is MY room, yoz, GET OUT!
shut up!

Personally I'd add:
バカにするな。[baka ni suru na]
"Don't make fun of me."
やめろ [yamero]
"cut it out!"

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[kanjibaka]

Even friends say rude things, this is not about not having the guts to stand up for myself. And, it is never good to overreact. There is such a thing a appropriacy for the context, and the induvidual you are speaking to.

I would really like a translation of the request Moejoe made "you know my Japanese is not very good, but I lose the desire to improve when I am always ridiculed"

This is the more effective thing to say.

[Javizy]

People do seem to be making a bit of a big deal. If most of these people are guys and they are actually friends with you, then a bit of piss-taking is only natural, surely? I'd say that the closer you are to your friends the more you rip into each other. In a group setting, if you say one thing out of place then it's pretty normal to expect a barrage of zingers headed your way.

Rather than coming across as weak and sensitive and a bit of a buzzkillington, try throwing some quips back their way. Let them know you can take a joke as well as you can make one. If any of them study English, that should make it pretty easy.

If it is just plain ridicule for the sake of making you feel bad though, then yeah you have to draw the line somewhere, and the sentence you suggested seems like a good starting place. I attempted a translation, but I don't know the most natural way to phrase it, so I'll leave it to someone else

[Elfunko]

One thing about Japanese culture is people are very nice. They never (in my experience) say anything rude, etc. However, when you get a close relationship with some cheeky m-fers, they start saying some rude sh1t. Realize it, throw some back at them, and know that its a sign of a close relationship. Hell, parents even rip on their kids in a way that westerners don't do, it just means they have deeper bonds.

However, sometimes you gotta tell em to stfu if you're not used to the jokes yet.

[sTeVe aUsTiN]

ひどい
何言ってんだよ
別れたいのか？
最悪
お前ここは俺の部屋だから、出て行け
うるせ

Hahahahahahaha. We should get a sticky list of "How to start a fight in Japanese!"

[Psy]

Even friends say rude things, this is not about not having the guts to stand up for myself. And, it is never good to overreact. There is such a thing a appropriacy for the context, and the induvidual you are speaking to.

I would really like a translation of the request Moejoe made "you know my Japanese is not very good, but I lose the desire to improve when I am always ridiculed"

This is the more effective thing to say.

This still seems, in any language, like a really wussy thing to do. As Elfunko and Javizy mentioned, if they're ripping into you that's a sign of closer friendship in any society (either that or they really are jerks), so you can afford to bite back a bit. At any rate, I took a stab at translating that request-- this is off the top of my head and I make no promises on how correct it is:

日本語がまだまだってもう分かってるんだろう？　上手になりたいけど、バカにされては努力しづらくなるんだよ

*addition*
well I actually had a chance to have someone correct me, and was told that I'm "mostly" right, whatever that means. Anyway, a better version is:

日本語がまだまだだってことはわかってるでしょ？
上手になりたいけど馬鹿にされると出来なくなるよ

Based on this I think it sounds more feminine, but since it came from a Japanese person you can bet it sounds better.

[josiah]

if they're ripping into you that's a sign of closer friendship in any society (either that or they really are jerks), so you can afford to bite back a bit

i disagree with this statement. why would "ripping into someone" mean that you are closer friends? in my experience, this simply doesn't make sense. just like another poster here said, i haven't met any japanese that would "rip into someone", not to say that there are none that do that, but i would have to say that friends wouldn't do that, especially if they were true friends and them being true friends, then they should know how difficult learning a second language is (assuming they speak english that is).

but back to what moejoe56 said; she said that his/her friends were ridiculing.
this isn't what friends do, and there is a line in a relationship where having a joke beings something more at someones expense.

i don't think that using fightin' words is the right way to go, thus i think the better way is to draw the line in the sand where you don't want people to cross.

[Elfunko]

Well, if someone rips into you too good, Hide! (Hidoi) or Uruse! (Urusai) is a good way of lettin em know they just crossed a line they shouldn't have. And rather than start a fight I'd just stop hangin out with those people.

But if you think friends don't rip into each other you've been sheltered. Hell, my old host mom started talkin crap about me being poor and not able to pick up chicks because of that, sayin that to my friend (american). He though, "Damn, she doesnt really like you." But I was happy, cause those words though sounding harsh actually show that our relationship is closer than ever. So I was actually happy she said those things. People don't rip into people they don't have a close relationship with.

Later, after pulling an all-nighter my "mom" said, "You were out with a girl weren't you!" "Oh that couldn't possibly be, I'm poor, girls aren't attracted to guys with no money." Hehehehehe

[Joey]

um this is the success story thread right?

Well this isnt much but i started learning the kanjis starting with 1st grade 2 weeks ago and plan on working my way through 6th before i go to Japan later this year and today i finished all the kanji for first grade!!!
now I'm a second grader ^^
Lol i even found my old bag I used when i was like in preschool and bring that to school with my kanji jiten to study with my Japanese teacher. Good times!

[josiah]

One thing about Japanese culture is people are very nice. They never (in my experience) say anything rude, etc. However, when you get a close relationship with some cheeky m-fers, they start saying some rude sh1t.

But if you think friends don't rip into each other you've been sheltered. Hell, my old host mom started talkin crap about me being poor.... People don't rip into people they don't have a close relationship with.

Elfunko, you've contradicted yourself here.
On one-end you said that "They [Japanese] never (in my experience) say anything rude, etc." and then you say the reverse about your Host Mother.

In your experience, which is the actual truth? Unless of course your Host Mother fits into the category of "cheeky m-fers, they start saying some rude sh1t"

You made a judgement call about me, supposing I was sheltered.

As a matter of fact I have been in Social Work and Nursing for several years now and would hardly call that a sheltered life, and I have several close friends who have no need to "rip into someone".

I know that sometimes you can have a little joke and tease someone, but ridiculing someone's language ability is not beneficial, and dependent on the individual in question, they react in different ways.

On the other hand, I would say its the friends whom you associate with and whether or not they "rip-into-you".
I don't think this is a sign of a close friendship, as you would know that anyone can rip into you without being your friend.

As I said earlier, its' about having a line which you don't want people to cross.