There is a cat and a book on the bed ??

[ShiroiNeko]

How do you say there is an inanimate object and and animate object in the same place?

Example: Beddo no ue ni neko to hon ga ( imasu? arimasu? something else? )


Fiercecat
ooOO ( HissFttt )

[Joey]

don't know for sure, but i would separate them with te form verb.

beddo no ue ni neko ga ite, hon ga arimasu.
or
beddo no ue ni hon ga atte, neko ga imasu.

[jkeyz15]

hmm I want to say

beddo no ue ni hon mo ari neko mo imasu.

or maybe

beddo no ue ni hon ga aru shi, neko mo imasu.


*Note: take these with a grain of salt*

[Javizy]

Don't you have to make 'beddo no ue ni' the topic? Otherwise it only applies to the first clause doesn't it? I'm not 100% sure, but what about a sentence like:

Atama ga yokute futoi. His head is good and he's fat.
Atama wa yokute futoi. As for his head, it's good and fat.

[Elfunko]

Id say aru. People say aru for animate objects too. Like my friend said a lot of people were at the newly built mall today using aru for people. I had to ask her what was there cause i was half not payin attention, and the fact that teh verb she used kinda didnt match what i thought i heard. Shes Osaka-ite as a point of reference, if it matters.

[foxyshez]

NEKO TO HON GA BEDDO NO UE NI ARIMASU
(YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH SAYING IT LIKE THIS BECAUSE A CAT IS ALMOST AN INNANIMATE OBJECT)

IF ITS A PERSON:
JACK WA BEDDO NO UE NI ITE HON MO BEDDO NO UE NI ARIMASU

I THINK THERE SHOULD BE A SHORTED WAY BUT APARENTLY JUST HOM MO ARIMASU IS KINDA DODGY

[ShiroiNeko]

Thanks everyone -- looks like I still have lots of study to do ( やっぱり)

FierceCat
ooOO ( Grrrrrrr )

[7daytrial]

from rikaichan:

ある(aru) - to live; to be; to exist; to be located;...etc


I think you can use:

ベッドの上に猫と本にあります
beddo no ue ni neko to hon ni arimasu.

translation: A book and cat are on top of the bed.

If you were to use: ga arimasu,

beddo no ue ni neko to hon ga arimasu.

translation: A book and cat exists on top of the bed.

Well..at least thats what I think it translates to.

[Javizy]

This is my interpretation of the sentence given, as I was trying to explain above:

Beddo no ue ni hon ga atte neko mo iru.
There is a book on the bed, and there is a cat.

'Ue ni' is just modifying the verb 'aru' here, but by making it the topic it can apply to the entire sentence, and you can avoid repetition like one of Foxy's sentences:

Beddo no ue ni wa hon ga atte neko mo iru.
As for on top of the bed, there is a book, and also a cat / There is a book and a cat on the bed.

I still don't know if you can use just one verb for this purpose though. All my textbooks failed to mention it. You have to admit it's a pretty strange way to express something like this, and kind of objectifies the people/animals. 'There's a cat and a book on the bed' sounds awkward even in English to me, you'd probably say something more empathetic like 'there's a cat laying on the bed next to a book'. So, I doubt you'll have to worry about this much, I've never encountered it anyway.

[7daytrial]

I asked my Japanese friend about this and she said the sentence itself does sound strange as Javizy has mentioned.

The sentences I had above were not incorrect but sounded somewhat strange.

Using aru for neko and book is ok.

neko to hon ga arimasu.

She also said this would be okay as well:

beddo no ue ni neko ite hon ga oite arimasu

[jkeyz15]

Yeah, I wanted to make the comment that it's a weird sentence to begin with.

[josiah]

i would say that this is the correct way to say it;

beddo ue ni neko ga itte hon ga arimasu

i asked my friend, also from osaka, and she said that you can't use arimasu for a cat or a human etc because they're animate, makese sense right?

[jkeyz15]

Yeah. that's what I was thinking. And my method was to break it up by using ari, possibly atte, or the conjunction "shi."

Though, I would prefer to break it into two sentences entirely, I think that defeats the purpose of the OP's original question.

Beddo no ue ni, hon mo ari [atte], neko mo imasu.

Beddo no ue ni, hon ga aru shi, neko mo imasu.

or possibly

hon to neko ga beddo no ue ni notte imasu.

[josiah]

Beddo no ue ni, hon mo ari [atte], neko mo imasu.

the particle no is not needed. the shi means among other things besides the cat and book.

i also dont think the particle is needed for this sentence too, and its pretty much understood.

[Jason]

Beddo no ue ni, hon mo ari [atte], neko mo imasu.

Beddo no ue ni, hon ga aru shi, neko mo imasu.

Both of these sounds very strange to me. In the first one, I don't think you can use も in the first clause since it's technically a separate sentence and is the first thing being mentioned. The 2nd も is fine though. Also, using the conjunctive form (~masu stem) of verbs as connectors is a very formal construction. It would sound very strange in everyday conversation.

The 2nd sentence doesn't really work because し is used to string together reasons for something. It's not used as a general connector.

You need the の.

Personally, I like the 乗っています solution as it just avoids the whole problem entirely.