Translations in romanji

[ianbaxter]

Hello all, I've been using jpod101 for a couple of months now and found it to be the most powerfiul learning aid I've ever used. Well done!
My level is around imtermediate and I want to progress further this year, but I'm only interested in the spoken word. I can get by in Hiragana but really prefer to use romanji as it's quick and my time is limited.
I notice though, as the class level gets higher the amount of romanji reduces and I guess it's assumed that the upper intermediates and beyod all have a command of hiragana and are studying kanji. This is not necessarily the case and I wonder if there are other students out there like me, who prefer romanji at the higher levels?
Is there any reason romanji could not be applied to the same degree across all class levels?
Ian

[プチクレア]

Ian,

why are you only interested in spoken japanese ? While speaking and listening is crucial in gaining proficiency in any language, written material is also a great provider of vocabulary and grammar structures. The higher your level, the more you will probably want to access "real" japanese material. And (unfortunately ?) real japanese isn't written in romaji. Nothing is written in romaji in Japan (except for some directions in stations and airports) and even JLPT level 4 asks for kana and some kanji knowledge. I'm not sure you won't find yourself stuck at some point in your study if you only stick to romaji and won't learn kana or kanjis...

[Javizy]

This thread could be quite unpopular Most people would like to see romaji wiped off the site. Even you've got to agree it's pretty horrible to read

Why would you aim to speak a language that you're completely illiterate in? Especially since kanji helps to develop your vocabulary. Plus, if you end up regretting it later on, it'll be too much of a hill to climb.

[markystar]

glad to hear your excited by our lessons! there are plenty more great lessons coming down the pipe!

actually, romaji (there's no "n" in the word, by the way) is used across the board on all levels. the pdf's and the learning center and the lyrics/subtitles for all premium audio feature kanji, kana, romaji and english translation. that's true for every lesson.

but i definitely think at the higher levels, you'll be hard pressed to find people who have no interest in reading or writing in japanese for the same reason プチクレアさん noted: japanese is not written in romaji. in fact, we get e-mails daily from people who want romaji completely banned from the site for the simple reason, it holds back their reading skills. on the other hand there are others, such as yourself, who have no intention of studying kanji/kana but still want to speak and understand. so you're definitely not alone on this one, but probably outnumbered as you get into the higher levels.

but at any rate, we do provide romaji for all levels.

[kc8ufv]

<SNIP>
in fact, we get e-mails daily from people who want romaji completely banned from the site for the simple reason, it holds back their reading skills.
<SNIP>
but at any rate, we do provide romaji for all levels.

IIRC, there was even a thread a couple months ago petitioning JP101 to BAN ローマ字　from all but newbie lessons. Look at anything (not intended for students) printed in the language. You won't find ローマ字 anywhere.

BTW Marky - I can loan you a shift key, if you need one.

[Javizy]

Look at anything (not intended for students) printed in the language. You won't find ローマ字 anywhere.

I'd like to add that some of the best intermediate learning materials I've got hardly have any English present let alone romaji. You'll be lucky to find anything romaji-based at an intermediate level outside of jpod, so without the luxury of being able to read simple books and magazines, this guy is going to be hard-pressed to find anything to study from.

It's amazing people manage to get to a decent level without reading. The retention rate for things you read is much higher than things you listen to, so it's an extremely inefficient way to study, even if you ignore all the cultural, entertainment, and look-at-me-I-can-read-these-crazy-scribbles rewards that it closes doors to.

[Psy]

I think I'm going to be a mean person here.

There isn't a single web site, a single class, a single teacher or a single intermediate-level student I've encountered that encourages the use of romaji beyond the time it takes to learn kana, which using proper study techniques should take no longer than one week. Furthermore, every single student I've met who is either on his way or already a competent speaker has mastered the kana and to some degree the kanji as well. Most of the others merely say they're a certain level.

I promise you that, going on audio alone, some day you will hit a wall. There will be things you don't understand, misunderstand, and perhaps most importantly miscommunicate. Once you pass a certain level, you will not be able to study the language to any great depth because materials (even aimed at learners) are written almost entirely in Japanese. Furthermore, you will forever deny yourself access to how natives write, be it a TV-ad, a product in the grocery store, or a simple sign that says "open for business, please come in."

Do yourself a favor and don't perpetuate the stereotype that "foreigners can't read Japanese." Since you do have the time to study Japanese, organize it a bet better so you can do it right.

</rant> みなさんと同感です。長く書きすぎてすみません。

[Jason]

There will be things you don't understand, misunderstand, and perhaps most importantly miscommunicate.

One word: homophones.

[markystar]

ok, ok, let's not all gang up on him.

if he still enjoys learning listening and speaking, why can't he pursue that in his own way? obviously, he's in a minority, but let's not discourage him, guys.

in the learning center he can start learning kana, and the video vocab will start exposing him to kanji & furigana. who knows? he might develop an interest in reading/writing japanese as well.

reading/writing japanese is definitely an massive endeavor and can be really frustrating, so in a way i can sympathize.

BTW Marky - I can loan you a shift key, if you need one

hahahaha,
no need, mate! got 2 perfectly good ones here, just not a fan of capital letters.

[Psy]

ok, ok, let's not all gang up on him.

if he still enjoys learning listening and speaking, why can't he pursue that in his own way? obviously, he's in a minority, but let's not discourage him, guys.

I don't believe any of us are trying to discourage, rather we're trying to keep a fellow student with high aspirations from completely derailing in a few years. It's one thing to learn a few phrases and to get by, but seeking higher-level materials without some study of the written language is a recipe for disaster. The problems won't manifest today, in a month, or even in a year... but one day, assuming the pursuit isn't altogether abandoned, the revelation that comes will be a cruel one.

reading/writing japanese is definitely an massive endeavor and can be really frustrating, so in a way i can sympathize.

I can absolutely sympathize. It is difficult, riddled with exceptions, and tedious beyond belief. However, it cannot simply be ignored by those with such lofty goals. It must be surmounted, and to do that, one must remain steadfast, determined and dedicated.

[markystar]

However, it cannot simply be ignored by those with such lofty goals. It must be surmounted, and to do that, one must remain steadfast, determined and dedicated.

there we go! that's what i'm talkin' about! awwwww yeah!

[kc8ufv]

I can absolutely sympathize. It is difficult, riddled with exceptions, and tedious beyond belief. However, it cannot simply be ignored by those with such lofty goals. It must be surmounted, and to do that, one must remain steadfast, determined and dedicated.

I agree. From personal experience, I have found that I understand much more when I look at the PDFs that accompany the lessons (even if only on screen, and don't print them) than when I listen only. And, I listen to all the parts of the podcast, and try the videos when available. It also helps when I listen, and look at materials written in the target language at least once daily. (Even listening to music, or looking at the day's slashdot.jp headlines help. Register there, and they can be sent to your inbox)

[kc8ufv]

I can absolutely sympathize. It is difficult, riddled with exceptions, and tedious beyond belief. However, it cannot simply be ignored by those with such lofty goals. It must be surmounted, and to do that, one must remain steadfast, determined and dedicated.

I agree. From personal experience, I have found that I understand much more when I look at the PDFs that accompany the lessons (even if only on screen, and don't print them) than when I listen only. And, I listen to all the parts of the podcast, and try the videos when available. It also helps when I listen, and look at materials written in the target language at least once daily. (Even listening to music, or looking at the day's slashdot.jp headlines help. Register there, and they can be sent to your inbox)