Trouble with kanji-can anyone help?

[mishisama]

I'm having the worst time memorizing my kanji. I have made flashcards with the kanji on front and the English, Ohyomi, and Kunyomi on back- in hirogana and katakana, of course. I have tried doing the kanji quiz on the lesson page, as well. For some reason it is not sinking in. Is there anything that I could be doing that I'm not? Some ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[jemstone]

that's how kanji is like. it's not like the roman languages where a word is made up of letters and you can pronounce them and that how it is written. kanji is more like a picture with a meaning.

you could try writing it on a piece of paper repeatedly. it might sink in.

[maxiewawa]

I've found that there isnt any "trick" to learning Kanji that you're not already doing. I would have suggested flashcards, but you have already thought of that...

Sorry I can't be helpful, but I suggest you keep doing what you're doing, and it will eventually sink in.

I can read/write Chinese, and everyone of the thousands of Kanji (hanzi) I had to learn I learnt doing the exact same thing that you're doing. Just keep at it, and 頑張って下さい！

[Belton]

Well another thing you could try in addition to the flashcards is using kanji.

A flashcard is a bit artificial in that you are trying to recall a load of information about a single kanji without any context.
If you start using kanji it might get easier.
Find the kanji for words you know, or use the kanji you know when writing.
Write things by hand rather than by computer.

Read using kanji. I realise this is hard. It's a bit of a catch 22 situation but there are graded readers available and books that use furigana. It is easier to remember the meanings and possibly the readings of kanji when they are in the context of a sentence or a story.
I recommend these graded readers
http://www.shiawase.co.uk/2007/06/04/100manjiwoyomitai/
and this kanji book
http://www.shiawase.co.uk/2007/08/22/jl ... -examples/

Reading and writing real Japanese by using mixi, or keeping a blog aimed at Japanese friends, or having a penfriend, or reading manga or Internet sites that interest you, all helped me. You tend to remember what you need to know to communicate, or what you come across repeatedly.

And another thing worth looking into is how kanji work in terms of components. Rather than trying to remember a character as a whole you remember the parts. These can also give clues to meaning and readings or help to make a character less abstract.

But unfortunately it takes time and perseverance. Stick with it. 頑張って！

[mishisama]

ありがとう みなさん. Maybe I am trying to process too much at once on each flashcard. I think that writing the kanji down will be difficult, but a great way to get practice. And I have learned a great deal from just reading and using the kanji in context. So you have all given me great ideas. I'll change my strategy and give myself a little more time, and see if that helps.
Peace and blessings,
Mishi

[Birddog]

Here's my two cents about learning Kanji.

I think the most important things to do when learning Kanji, is too learn them in sentences, and two, only learn Kanji for words that you already know. This way you are only learning one new thing, not trying to learn a Kanji for a new word that means nothing to you. (Perhaps start by learning Kanji associated with the earlier Jpod101 lessons, the vocab should be familiar to you, and you have example sentences to learn them with.)

For example if you are learning the Kanji for iku 行く don't just write the kanji on one side of the flash card and the onyomi and kunyomi on the otherside. Instead use the Kanji in a sentence. eg 私は大学に行きます　and learn that instead. That way when you learn it and remember it you have more context and thus more mental "hooks" to help you learn and remember it. Also then choose another word to learn which has the kanji as part of a compound so you learn another reading for it. eg. 大学のとなりに銀行があります。

A few more rules that I live by. These two sentences are not to go on the same flashcard. Don't try to cram too much on one flashcard, you need to take time with Kanji. I wouldn't fall into the trap of writing each Kanji 50 times in a row ( I did this, and ended up getting very frustrated) To start with write each Kanji 5 ~ 10 times, but no more. Also start off with simpler Kanji, so that when you learn more difficult Kanji down the track, you might find that they are made of simpler Kanji. This will make learning the new more complicated Kanji much easier, if your just adding 3 other Kanji together.

Also remember that learning Kanij is a skill, and like any other skill it gets easier with time and practice. It sucks when you first get started, but don't give up, just keep going. You don't always have to learn a certain number of characters per week etc, the main thing is perseverance. If you think about it, if you decide to learn 10 Kanji per week(sometimes more, sometimes less), after 4 years you will know 2000 characters, which is slightly more than the "Daily Use Characters". 4 years isn't that long, when you consider how long you are going to be learning japanese for (in my case a lifetime ).

Hope this helps,

Birddog

[untmdsprt]

Here's my two cents:

I also learn the kanji associated with the words I'm learning. I'm concentrating on level 4 at the moment, and then level 3 of the JLPT. But the best thing is like the others have said: learn the kanji in context with the words.

How about picking a topic you want to learn, and then see which kanji are associated with it? Like days of the week. Ok, next is the days of the month, and then the months themselves. Next time, do names of languages for each country. What are the countries called, or the people?

You do have to write the kanji by hand to memorize them faster. It forces you to draw the picture from memory. I quiz myself this way to make sure I haven't forgotten a stroke here and there.

[Javizy]

You could try some of these elaborate methods, give yourself RSI writing them out a million times, or you could buy the book 'Remembering the Kanji' by James Heisig, give yourself security for the future (i.e. still remember ones you don't use for a long time) and take a load off your mind

[Birddog]

I like the way Heisig teaches simpler Kanji first and then teaches more complex Kanji and being made up of the simpler Kanji. The difficulty I find with Heising is that there is no context, you don't even learn the readings for the Kanji (that comes in another book), you just get a character and really only learn the main english meaning for it.

Birddog

[Javizy]

It's not supposed to teach you either of those things, nor does it claim to. It allows you to remember, from memory, how to write a character just by thinking of a word, and likewise, remember the meaning of a character by looking at it. If you consider that it covers 2042 characters with up to 23 strokes, it's quite some accomplishment just to be able to do that in the relatively short timeframe it takes to complete the book.

Attempting to simultaneously learn multiple meanings and readings along with the writing of a character is unrealistic for anybody without a photographic memory. Mastering kanji is an organic process, and shouldn't even be attempted all at once. After completing Heisig, you have a complete index of characters in your mind that you can start to add other meanings and readings to far more easily than trying to cram the information into nothingness.

Through learning new words, reading, and continuing to study the characters, you will soon start to associate them with Japanese words with a range of different meanings and readings. Naturally, it takes some time, but what's important is that it sticks, something that scribbling out one character a million times, with absolutely no connection in your mind to lead you back to it, definitely doesn't.

I seem to make this argument all the time (hopefully a bit more articulately each time ), because I almost feel sorry for the people who don't use Heisig, but if people would rather scribble and forget, I can't really do anything about it. I'm just glad I found the book when I did.

[lazysunday]

Japanese elementary school children's books. They teach the kanji 1 reading at a time with lots and lots of example sentences. I would stay away from anything that relies heavily on English as it adds that extra step. I am sure Remembering the Kanji is a good book but I have never read it. Also do a search for 漢字大好き on youtube

[Psy]

I would stay away from anything that relies heavily on English as it adds that extra step.

Is it sometimes better to take two steps that are easy instead of one that is frightfully difficult?

Just some food for thought.

[Birddog]

I think learning Kanji by the Heisig method (just as with any method) involves comprimises.

If you do decide to learn via the Heisig method (ie. just the characters and primary english meanings, not their readings), you do get a very logical and structured approach to the task. With Heisig the answer to the question "How do I learn Kanji" is answered for you. After all this was a method designed specifically for learners who come from a linguistic background which does not use Kanji.

But, (for me at least, and I have tried Heisig) I think there are also some draw backs to the method which have to be considered.

As soon as you start learning Kanji and their readings, you start learning the building blocks for new vocabulary (compounds with use that Kanji) and their readings. Ie once you know the Kanji and reading for 大学　(daigaku), next time you encouter a word with either "dai" of "gaku" in it, you'll at least might know partly how it is read. Then when you look in the dictionary, get the reading, you'll have an extra mental hook to remember the Kanji by, it won't be just a bunch of sounds, it'll have a reason for being that particular bunch of sounds, because it has those particular characters in it. With Heisig you are not learning the reading first up, so you are not getting this help to memorise vocab along the way. You do get it though, at the end, at which point, you have to mentally retrofit all the readings to the characters.

I suggest try a few ways, to learn, either you still using and playing with Kanji and that is a good thing. Learning Kanji is just a time equasion.

Birddog

[Javizy]

I agree with what you say about the sounds making sense when you know the characters. This is even true in spoken language; if you know the context, and recognise the sounds that make up an unknown word, you can get some idea of the meaning just by picturing the characters. So I can see why you would consider delaying the readings a disadvantage.

You can offset that disadvantage slightly by reading. I haven't studied kanji readings as such (I still have some Heisig to finish), but after learning about half the kanji, I started trying to read the PDF kanji. Being able to recognise the characters really helps the reading stick when going back and forth between the kana and kanji, and I find myself looking at the kana far less nowadays. Even a couple of months ago, I was able to read the ordering instructions for food at a pub in London.

I suppose my method is a little unorthodox, but like I said, I don't study and review characters with their readings, I just read the PDF's and they seem to stick quite easily.

[oniijin]

I remember when I was learning chinese character when I was little, it was just forced memorization. What the teacher had us do was learn maybe 5-10 characters a week. you get a sheet of paper, with blocks to write the characters in...and each character u copy like 20 times. everytime you write it, you say the character in your head or whatever...that helped when I was little...might be worth a shot. =]