[req] Please take a look at this template for future lessons

[Andresit0]

Hello, I made this template for lesson notes. Currently I dislike the lesson notes available.

Japanese101.com can use this template if interested, I will gladly give it away for free and you can alter it any way you please (made in pages, os x 10.5),

preview, http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/3640/jap101rp0.jpg
download the full pdf template, http://www.mediafire.com/?dddmsyedhxw

features;

Furigana, it takes out the extra space from having a kana reading. Having furiganahelps to reinforce kanji reading. Since this is a learning document it must provide furigana. There are plenty of other reading resources if you prefer to avoid furigana.

readable conversations, easier to the eye for reading with out having to develop an extra skill.

Translation and romaji in separate page, that way first page (conversation page) is in japanese only.

Vocabulary, kanji, kana with logical writing to identify kanji reading,
in the right side for easy covering (i.e. when studying and covering english part) english meaning in small font, and at the very end the romaji (far where you cannot see it),

grammar with furigana, english translation in small font of course.

no intro page, i do not print the transcripts but it just takes too much visual space.

NOTE, the use of small fonts for furigana or english takes advantage of the pdf format, that is, you can zoom in or out according to your eye capabilities.

Please comment

[Psy]

Interesting idea. I don't use the lesson notes (I'm a freeloader), but this looks like an nice way to go about documenting the lessons for review. I'm sure a lot of people would find such a resource useful, though I don't know how J-pod 101 would feel about your possibly ripping off their premium services.

Also, just so you know, 鋳造物 means "casting" in the sense of "cast metal." I suppose it isn't entirely inappropriate considering we're talking about motorcycles, but...

Keep up the good work. It's good that we're a dedicated bunch here at Jpod.

[watermen]

Not to pour cold water on you. But I don't think your new template is anymore helpful than the original PDF file. Unless you can make a PDF that can be read on my iPhone, which yours couldn't as well.

[Javizy]

How many times is the furigana debate going to be started? Replacing the kanji (i.e. the JAPANESE) with furigana is just plain stupid when you could replace the kana with furigana instead. That way, the furigana becomes a more convenient reference rather than a CRUTCH, as well as keeping everyone happy.

The romaji is the one thing that should be obliterated, then the English translation can be set to a single column to save some space.

I also agree about the first page, it's a massive waste of space. Marky suggested simply not printing it, but that makes filing the lessons a nightmare, so some sort of heading would be good.

[Psy]

Replacing the kanji (i.e. the JAPANESE) with furigana is just plain stupid when you could replace the kana with furigana instead.

... what are you talking about?

[Javizy]

I'm referring to the sections in the PDFs. I read the kanji, and use the kana as a reference. If the furigana replaced the kana, it would be a much more convenient reference, and I could continue reading the kanji as normal, i.e. without the safety-wheels on. If furigana was the sole option, people who find it useless for learning kanji readings would be up the creek.

[Psy]

It still seems to me like you're saying two different things:

If the furigana replaced the kana, it would be a much more convenient reference, and I could continue reading the kanji as normal, i.e. without the safety-wheels on.

On one end you're saying abolish the safety wheels, on the other you say replace a kana reference with furigana. What then do you mean by "safety wheels"? Furigana is by definition the addition of kana readings above kanji (a practice which I don't endorse because it encourages laziness with learning kanji), so I don't understand how one could read "for-real" while continuing to use it. Would you please try clarifying again?

[watermen]

I also agree about the first page, it's a massive waste of space. Marky suggested simply not printing it, but that makes filing the lessons a nightmare, so some sort of heading would be good.

Not really, I think the first page has its function. It looks beautiful on my Mac. Take a look here. This is also one of the reason why I am so picky about wrong lesson number. Hope Jpod101 can take 5 sec to check the lesson number before it is released.

[maxiewawa]

Erm... does everyone realise what furigana is? It's tiny writing above 漢字 that tell you how that particular 漢字 is written.

Sorry if everyone knew that.

[Javizy]

It still seems to me like you're saying two different things:

If the furigana replaced the kana, it would be a much more convenient reference, and I could continue reading the kanji as normal, i.e. without the safety-wheels on.

On one end you're saying abolish the safety wheels, on the other you say replace a kana reference with furigana. What then do you mean by "safety wheels"? Furigana is by definition the addition of kana readings above kanji (a practice which I don't endorse because it encourages laziness with learning kanji), so I don't understand how one could read "for-real" while continuing to use it. Would you please try clarifying again?

I'm not fluent, so I can't read the kanji transcript in full at first, but that's the point of the PDF: to learn how to, which is where the kana/furigana become useful (as a reference). I aim to be able to read the kanji script unassisted, for me that is when I feel I have finished the lesson.

It's just like you use the English transcript if you get stuck translating a sentence, or the vocabulary list if you can't remember a word, it's a far cry from having the English above the Japanese, your memory would have practically no work to do.

This is a really pointless debate anyway. Like I said, simply replacing the kana with furigana would be the easiest compromise, nobody can really complain then.

[Psy]

Ah, now the context is clear and your argument makes sense to me. I mentioned earlier that I don't get the PDFs, so what you wrote about 'replacing kana with furigana' sort-of threw a wrench in my thought process. But now, if I've got it right, the current status is as follows:

1. Full kanji, no furigana transcription
2. Full kana transcription
3. Romaji transcription.

Your proposal, then, is to make it this:

1. Full kanji, no furigana transcription.
2. Full kanji, furigana transcription
3. --nothing!--

Frankly I couldn't agree more. Speaking from my own experience, from every text I've read, and from every expert opinion I've heard on the topic, it is clear that the use of romaji is damaging to learning proper pronunciation. While I will argue that it should be kept in the newbie/early beginner lessons to avoid burdening new students, anyone above that either does have or ought to have some proficiency with kana, and should also be working on his kanji comprehension. Furigana, though no replacement for unassisted reading, achieves both kanji exposure and pronunciation aid, and is far less cumbersome (as well as more natural) than using an only-kana dialogue.

I agree that replacing the latter two transcriptions with a furigana set would be a more efficient use of the student's time, the teacher's time, and page space. I cannot fathom an argument against it as it is both a more effective learning tool and requires less work on behalf of the authors.

I never thought you were crazy, Javizy, which is why I was so confused earlier. I'd love to hear J-pod's take on this.

[watermen]

I like furigana too.

[josiah]

umm marky said they can't do furigana right? how come there's furigana on the early informal lesson notes?

[kc8ufv]

umm marky said they can't do furigana right? how come there's furigana on the early informal lesson notes?

Which lessons are you referencing? I just looked at the PDFs for all the lessons through beginner #4

[markystar]

a couple of things to note from our side...

when i came to jpod each PDF was created by hand (somebody might have put furigana in them, i haven't seen those few, but it's possible with the old software). but our old PDF's were very short (and so were the lessons). we've got more focus now and we can make richer PDF's.


that said, yeah, we can't do furigana on the current PDF's.



and I AM WITH ALL OF YOU, i want to eliminate the romaji.

i'll keep pushing for you. i promise. jasonさん is also on your side on this one.