Stress, intonation and tones

[kdavid3]

Hello all,

I am brand spankin' new to Japanese and have a few questions regarding pronunciation. I'd appreciate any help/advice you could provide.

I am an American currently living in China. I am fluent in Mandarin. Japanese will be my third language.

For those note familiar with Chinese, Mandarin is a tonal language. Is Japanese similar? My western colleagues say it isn't, but my Chinese colleagues claim it is.

Also, is there an obvious stress pattern in Japanese? For example, in English the word experiment is stressed on the second syllable: exPERiment. In the Czech language, 99% of the time stress falls on the first syllable. Mandarin has no equivalents. How does Japanese shape up in this department?

Another, Mandarin is an exceptionally easy language to butcher thanks to its tones. Therefore, meticulous, anal-retentive attention to tones and correct pronunciation is crucial. Is Japanese similar? Are foreigners often mocked for having horrible accents?

Lastly, is there an area in Japan known for having "the most standard" accent? In China, the NE is generally known for having the clearest Mandarin, while the south is ridiculed for their pronunciation.

Thanks in advance for your replies!

Best,
Kyle

[Belton]

Japanese isn't stress accented it has pitch accent.
A rising pitch and a falling pitch. and flat pitch.
This distinguishes homonyms to an extent. the famous one being はし hashi meaning bridge (rising on shi) and chopsticks (falling on shi). Also famously inverted in Osaka dialect.
there's also あめ ame, no pitch means rain, rising pitch on me means candy.
It starts to get more complex when words are put together though.
There are some rules for it, but it can be inconsistent.

It's a slightly contentious issue with learners perhaps.
In my experience it's effectively ignored as a topic in language instruction. Most systems rely instead on a good model for you to follow. I don't think JPod has tackled it in a podcast yet. It comes up in the Forums now and then.

I don't think you can butcher Japanese in a similar way to Mandarin. Context usually carries you along. The sounds are relatively simple for English speakers I think. If you can hear the pitch you can probably mimic it. The important thing is not to use stress instead of pitch.
Because of limited amount of sounds you still have to be careful. びょういん、byouin びよういん biyouin　being a classic example. One is hospital the other beauty parlour. (although tone works here as well)

Also a shift of a syllable from say み mi　to め me, relatively harmless in English, can make a word unintelligible to Japanese I find. It might even change the grammar in some circumstances.

The standard accent is the Tokyo accent. Seat of government, and high population being the decider I guess.
I'm not sure about other accents but there are a number of regional dialects. Apparently all Japanese learn the standard accent but also speak their respective dialects.

[jkeyz15]

just look up Japanese pitch accent.


Generally, Japanese (standard dialect - kantou-ben/tokyo-ben)falls in intonation after the "accent."

After the accent the pitch drops sharply.


If the accent is at the first part then it's high and then remaining ones are low.
If the accent is in the middle, first syllable is low, then the rest rise until the accented syllable, then falls.
Or a flat tone, with a low pitch first syllable and the rest rising.

The particle is conisdered part of the word before it.

There are even accent dictionaries, like for example if speakers of one dialect want to pronounce like another accent dialect for like tv or something.

Learning accent for everyone word is pointless and stupid. Just pay attention and mimic native speakers!

[Elfunko]

KDavid, didn't I talk to you on like the chinesepod forum about a electronic dictionary?

[kdavid3]

Elfunko,

Very possible.

[Elfunko]

Compared to Mandarin Japanese should be a breeze I would think. Listen and repeat with similar stress patterns and you're golden.